Shop size

[DALSAW]

I have a cabinet shop, but it's size is holding me back. It is in a 12'X16' building, a little less than 200 sq ft. Oh and I have a big UGLY 20' shipping container behind it that I use for storing materials. I need to build a larger shop, so what would be an ideal size for the type of work I do.

[DALSAW]

Oh yea, I would like it to have 10' to 12'+ celings. What would be better a prefab steel building kit,or "stick" framed building.

[Vic]

One of these days, I'll take pics of mine..but it's 30x40 with a bathroom and a deep sink (not installed yet). I have 2/3rds in power and 1/3 in hand work. It's got a crawlspace, so no pipes or electrical overhead. It works very nicely for me.

[jab73180]

well first question is what kind of climate do you live in? do you heat and air condition the space? i think it would be easier to insulate a stick built building, but if pre fab metal buildings are dirt cheap in your area go for it. a good size building for you would be a 32 X 40. its gonna seem big, but it is never big enough.

[Danny Hellyar]

I built a stick frame 28' x 21' shop with ten foot high walls and it filled up pretty quickly. I built as big as the city zoning laws would allow. I have a 110" horizontal panel saw and it has a substantial foot print in the shop. Not much room for assembly, but it does Ok,as long as I keep my workbench clear. No windows so I could use all my wall space. I installed six 2' x 4' glass sky lights to make up for the lack of windows and I'm glad I did. My primary work is building cabinets, although not on any production basis. I think I would be happier with two to four hundred more feet though.

[DALSAW]

well first question is what kind of climate do you live in? do you heat and air condition the space? i think it would be easier to insulate a stick built building, but if pre fab metal buildings are dirt cheap in your area go for it. a good size building for you would be a 32 X 40. its gonna seem big, but it is never big enough.

I live in northern Ga, as far a heat & A/C goes, I'm thinking about a propane heater and and a 48" fan for cooling. I was thinking about having the new shop spray foamed, I know that it costs a little more but it will be worth it. A 32'X40" sounds like a pretty good size to me.

[markhochstein]

I agree with Jason. You can get some really nice buildings from Morton and some other pre-fab manufacturers. Insulating it is a little harder but they've come a long way with that too. I ultimately chose to go with stick-built because I wanted it to match my house. But if that's not a driving factor then you can get a great deal on a pre-fab building - and another bonusis that they go up FAST.

Another consideration is the site. If there is a significant grade that will require a real foundation then that may change things as well. That was my case. When they said they were going to have put in 7' deep foundation walls then I decided just to put a basement in it and double the space.

Since you're in Ga I doubt that heating it will be much of an issue. You may want to look at a mini-split ductless heat pump for cooling (Mitsubishi and Sanyo are reputable). They are quite efficient and fairly inexpensive - and they will provide heat when you need it.

As for size, I would shoot for 1000 sq/ft minimum. My shop is 750 sq/ft and while it's OK for a hobbyist it could be better. Another 250 sq/ft for a finishing room would be a necessity if I were doing production work.

[Vic]

I agree with Jason. You can get some really nice buildings from Morton and some other pre-fab manufacturers. Insulating it is a little harder but they've come a long way with that too. I ultimately chose to go with stick-built because I wanted it to match my house. But if that's not a driving factor then you can get a great deal on a pre-fab building - and another bonusis that they go up FAST.

Another consideration is the site. If there is a significant grade that will require a real foundation then that may change things as well. That was my case. When they said they were going to have put in 7' deep foundation walls then I decided just to put a basement in it and double the space.

Since you're in Ga I doubt that heating it will be much of an issue. You may want to look at a mini-split ductless heat pump for cooling (Mitsubishi and Sanyo are reputable). They are quite efficient and fairly inexpensive - and they will provide heat when you need it.

As for size, I would shoot for 1000 sq/ft minimum. My shop is 750 sq/ft and while it's OK for a hobbyist it could be better. Another 250 sq/ft for a finishing room would be a necessity if I were doing production work.

Good lord, Mark..you're even suggesting ductless heat pumps...I think I'm developing a huge man crush!! And yes, if you go with a metal shop, spray foam could work very well for you. If you go with stick...I'd stick (pun inevitable) with blown in cellulose and air seal the hell out of it with caulk and canned spray foam. It's a much better bang for the buck in a stick built scenario.

[markhochstein]

I think I'm developing a huge man crush!!

Now that's funny!

[Onboard]

I have a cabinet shop, but it's size is holding me back. It is in a 12'X16' building, a little less than 200 sq ft. Oh and I have a big UGLY 20' shipping container behind it that I use for storing materials. I need to build a larger shop, so what would be an ideal size for the type of work I do.

Aaron, I think you might want to work at this from another angle as well. I suggest you do a layout with your tools to scale inserted in a layout grid. I don’t know what type of community you live in, but I would think that there are local regulations as to how large a structure (and sometimes what type of structure) you can put on your property.

Once you know what the building codes are for your area and what the maximum size shop you can construct, then you can go to this link and launch the shop planner and enter your proposed shop size. From there you can work with the left side to pull over your power tool types onto the grid and arrange them and rearrange them. You can also add cabinets and work surfaces and lumber storage. Of course being a shop planner on the Grizzly site all the tool symbols are for Grizzly tools, so you need to watch for differences in size. You can move the mouse pointer over a symbol to see what it is. Most of this exercise is to get a ballpark idea though.

You’ll want to leave what you think is adequate work space between your equipment and decide how much space you need for assembly. The planner does have a tape measure to check distances, but the grid is one square per foot. You probably want to determine what types of rooms you may want in your proposed shop, such as an office, finishing room, toilet (and maybe a shower), etc.. From the upper left area you can save your layout, print it, email it, etc..

After you’ve done that, you may find that the size you picked is too small or maybe too large (not as likely). Once you complete the layout and it seems okay, you might want to consider if you want to increase that size by a certain percentage for future use, or even to compensate for spaces that looked okay on the layout but in reality may be too narrow or small.

There are other shop planners available, including SketchUp skp file , a Visio woodshop library, and one or two other online shop planners. Of course there are many other considerations as I know you are aware of, such as electrical, plumbing, lighting, DC set up, HVAC (already mentioned), etc., etc..

[Vic]

I know it's probably redundant to say, but think about everything you'll do in your shop from bringing in sheetgoods and lumber to all the processes, ending with finishing. Remember how a kitchen is planned. The "magic" triangle. I used the Grizzly planner and my shop is remarkably unchanged.

[Onboard]

I know it's probably redundant to say, but think about everything you'll do in your shop from bringing in sheetgoods and lumber to all the processes, ending with finishing. Remember how a kitchen is planned. The "magic" triangle. I used the Grizzly planner and my shop is remarkably unchanged.

Excellent point Vic. I'm guessing Aaron probably has a workflow for his current shop, but since he is designing a new shop, perhaps this web page would be helpful.

[PaulMarcel]

"Magic triangle"? My shop was apparently designed for the Bermuda triangle. I swear crap disappears whenever I put it down.

[Guest Mahoganus]

Im in the process now of building my work shop as well. So far I have the concrete floor and foundation done. My building size is 24x40 with 12' ceiling. I have built a few buildings myself and one thing that comes to mind make sure you leave 4' or more spacing between garage door and other doors,, and or at least 4' spacing from the corner to the garage door. Steel buildings are cool but when it rains the steel roof can get noisey, steel buildings seem to cost more to insulate. The only reason I would ever go steel is if I wanted a building 40' wide or wider all because of the truss width.

I would go 12' ceiling for sure. I will never build a building for me that has nothing less than 12' ceiling. Why? I like a 10'x10' garage door. Something else I also recommend,, never go with any garage door opening less than 10' wide. With a 12' ceiling it will also give you plenty of room for lighting and storage etc.

Im not sure what yall mean by stick garage,, around here we have pole barns(4x6 treated poles 8' on center) insulated garages (2x6 16" on center, sitting on a foundation) Steel building (Steel beams etc)

Here in Ohio the climate is hardly ever right so for me I want the garage with the best R value because I'm installing a heat pump. Heat pumps do both heating and cooling and are the most efficient.

So I go with the insulated garage. The insulated garage is built like most homes R19 Insulation between the studs and the new pink panther blow in insulation for the attic.

So with all this in mind the size of the building for me is how much money I have,, because if I was rich I would have at least 250'x250'x16 then I think I might me happy.

[Vic]

Im in the process now of building my work shop as well. So far I have the concrete floor and foundation done. My building size is 24x40 with 12' ceiling. I have built a few buildings myself and one thing that comes to mind make sure you leave 4' or more spacing between garage door and other doors,, and or at least 4' spacing from the corner to the garage door. Steel buildings are cool but when it rains the steel roof can get noisey, steel buildings seem to cost more to insulate. The only reason I would ever go steel is if I wanted a building 40' wide or wider all because of the truss width.

I would go 12' ceiling for sure. I will never build a building for me that has nothing less than 12' ceiling. Why? I like a 10'x10' garage door. Something else I also recommend,, never go with any garage door opening less than 10' wide. With a 12' ceiling it will also give you plenty of room for lighting and storage etc.

Im not sure what yall mean by stick garage,, around here we have pole barns(4x6 treated poles 8' on center) insulated garages (2x6 16" on center, sitting on a foundation) Steel building (Steel beams etc)

Here in Ohio the climate is hardly ever right so for me I want the garage with the best R value because I'm installing a heat pump. Heat pumps do both heating and cooling and are the most efficient.

So I go with the insulated garage. The insulated garage is built like most homes R19 Insulation between the studs and the new pink panther blow in insulation for the attic.

So with all this in mind the size of the building for me is how much money I have,, because if I was rich I would have at least 250'x250'x16 then I think I might me happy.

Mahoganus,

"Stick" built, is a common building term in my area for 2x construction. I would go with cellulose in the attic over the fiberglass. It performs much better from an energy efficiency standpoint. Plus, I think in time fiberglass will be the new asbestos. The one exception is a John Mansfield product called Spyder Insulation, which has a binder in a blow in product. It performs well.

[Jim DaddyO]

Vic's shop is awesome, and big! Not quite as big as mine. I work on the lawn, so my limitations are how near the closest building is. Dreaming of having something with walls and a ceiling, hard to work in the rain and snow.

[Guest Mahoganus]

Mahoganus,

"Stick" built, is a common building term in my area for 2x construction. I would go with cellulose in the attic over the fiberglass. It performs much better from an energy efficiency standpoint. Plus, I think in time fiberglass will be the new asbestos. The one exception is a John Mansfield product called Spyder Insulation, which has a binder in a blow in product. It performs well.

Thanks for the stick info,, just a cheaper version of what Im calling an insulated garage. cellulose and fiberglass hmm could differ for hours on this but here is what I got to say.

http://www.askthebuilder.com/054_Cellulose_Vs_Fiberglass_Insulation.shtml

[Chester]

I have an upstairs shop ... upstairs of our small barn. Do I have to carry everything up? Yep, I do. But I do like being up high. I have good views from the windows and good natural light. The other benefit is for dust collection. If you came into my shop, you might not even notice that I have a DC system in place. That is because it is behind many of the tools and goes through the floor to the DC. My DC is only a 110V, 1.5HP unit but it pulls very well and, I am sure, gets a big boost from the gravity ... going down to the DC on the lower level. It is also nice to have the noise of the DC on a different floor.

If I ever get a chance to build a new stand-alone shop, I will try to put either a basement or a crawl space under it.

Chester

PS - Yes, getting some of my bigger tools up the stairs was a chore but ... we did live to tell about it!

[Vic]

Odd, the way I read the article and the responses, fire was the only "disadvantage" of cellulose vs Fiberglas and that is extremely uncommon. In all the building and efficiency seminars I attend, Fiberglas has, for the most part been relegated to the use of sound mitigation. Btw, my absolute favorite building methods is using SIPS. Gasketed correctly, it produces the tightest, best u value going.

[Onboard]

Odd, the way I read the article and the responses, fire was the only "disadvantage" of cellulose vs Fiberglas and that is extremely uncommon. In all the building and efficiency seminars I attend, Fiberglas has, for the most part been relegated to the use of sound mitigation. Btw, my absolute favorite building methods is using SIPS. Gasketed correctly, it produces the tightest, best u value going.

I'm curious Vic. Can SIP be adapted to Timber-Frame or Post & Beam construction? Thanks.

[Guest Mahoganus]

Odd, the way I read the article and the responses, fire was the only "disadvantage" of cellulose vs Fiberglas and that is extremely uncommon. In all the building and efficiency seminars I attend, Fiberglas has, for the most part been relegated to the use of sound mitigation. Btw, my absolute favorite building methods is using SIPS. Gasketed correctly, it produces the tightest, best u value going.

Yeah I dont know,,,but that new Pink Panther expanding blow in insulation sure was a treat to blow in compared to the old newspapper blow in stuff. The new insulation from http://insulation.owenscorning.com/homeowners/insulation-products/atticat.aspx

had almost zero dust or any other air borne particles. I did not get itchy like I was expecting either. That SIPS is awesome!

[DALSAW]

Thanks for all the input guys, I made a call to the county and as long as the building is under 2000 sq ft and less than 16' tall at the side walls I'm fine.

[Sac]

"Magic triangle"? My shop was apparently designed for the Bermuda triangle. I swear crap disappears whenever I put it down.

That happens to you too?!!! I thought that I was the only one!!

[Onboard]

Thanks for all the input guys, I made a call to the county and as long as the building is under 2000 sq ft and less than 16' tall at the side walls I'm fine.

That’s great to hear Aaron! I know one person who’s woodshop was featured in Fine Woodworking, who said he couldn’t build his shop as large as he wanted because of local zoning set back requirements. In his case, he did timber frame construction with a second floor to allow him extra space for wood storage and general storage. The first floor was 864 sq. ft. and both floors added up to 1,500 sq. ft..

[Onboard]

"Magic triangle"? My shop was apparently designed for the Bermuda triangle. I swear crap disappears whenever I put it down.

That happens to you too?!!! I thought that I was the only one!!

That's because you guys didn't use the Australian Boomerang Triangle design.