Problems with Too Much Sanding (won't take stain)

[ksamnic]

So I am refinishing some large Douglas Fir beams in a house I am restoring. I thought I would be a little bit fancy and stain them with a black gel stain, wiping off quickly to let the grain through. I am using an Old Masters Gel stain. I have attached a picture below with the desired effect.

 

The problem I have is that one of the beams (the most prominant one of course!) won't absorb the stain. I have tried many things - but it just won't take (see second photo below).

 

My guess is that I oversanded the beam. I used a random orbital and went down to 100gr - but when I feel the wood now it feels almost burnished - smooth like when you over-polish something. I guess it is also possible that this chunk of wood has more oils etc.. It is defeinately a "younger-growth" tree (the wood was more creamy colored than the other Fir - which has that typical orangy-pink hue).

 

Anyway, the challenge now is to get is darker to match the other beams - hopefully without sanding the entire thing again!

 

Does anyone know of a way to open the pores of a piece of wood after it has a coat of stain on it? Water just beads up.

 

I am considering trying a dye (there is an Old Masters dye in the same color) ... but I worry then about too much menetration!

 

Ideas?

 

 

 

[..Kev]

Did you try letting the stain sit on it a little longer?  Is there someplace you can try this that won't be seen too much?

 

I'm guessing that your issue isn't the sanding but the wood itself.  

[Bombarde16]

This particular beam came from a slower growing tree with growth rings much closer together than its colleagues.  While the porous early wood (in between the rings) slurps up pigment, staining the dense latewood of a conifer is an utter waste of time: the pigment just bounces right off.

 

Is it really a problem?  (i.e. Has the client noticed and complained?)  Conifers are just plain schizo when it comes to absorption and, short of paint, there's nothing on earth that will get both the early and late woods to take a dark stain evenly.

[Rick Mosher]

Do you know what the original finish was? Are these solid wood beams? Usually a stripper is a better way to remove the old finish, it is REALLY hard to sand all the old finish out especially on a soft wood. I think if you used a methylene chloride paste type stripper first, washed the beam with acetone after the stripper to remove any surface contamination and THEN sanded you will be OK. I think 100 grit is overkill on fir 150 or 180 should be fine as long as you change the paper often. Fir clogs sandpaper really fast.

[Tpt life]

> Fir clogs sandpaper really fast.

Also my thought. If your paper loads up you can friction burnish.

[wdwerker]

If you decide to try the dye make it a weak solution. Then you can put it on in thin coats and sneak up on a color match to the other beams.

I would use the same sandpaper and sander so the surface is similar in appearance when you proceed to the finish coats.

[ksamnic]

Rob H: I think you are correct about the growth rings. I am no expert on fir/pine etc, but I have been studying these beams pretty closely over the past day. The effect we are looking for (the grain showing as seen in the darker beam) can only be caused by one part of the growth rings absorbing more than the other - the stuff that is lighter clearly not taking the stain.

 

The strange thing is that the other side of the beam looks just like the darker beam. I wish I could see the end grain, b/c I am starting to think that this beam was maybe cut near the outside of the the tree (which would explain the pronouned face grain look on the beam). I guess it is possible that one side is more sap-wood. It does have a "waxier" feel.

 

Yesterday (after posting this) I tried a few things on some off cuts from other beams (I don't have an off-cut from this particular one). I played with time I left the stain on, tried thinning the stain (it is a gell stain) to the consistency of thick latex paint, tried scribbing with water between applications, and I tried just repeatedly overcoating. None of these things would increase actual absorption. The thinned stain was hopefull though - as it is easier to wipe excess and leave a consistent layer on the surface.

 

So I put on a thick coat (to a test piece) and left it overnoght to dry. Then tried a few variations of sanding, wet/dry, wipe with sovent etc.. Nothing really worked (all these techniques did was make it look quite messy).

 

Monday I will pick up some dye and play with that a bit. I am pretty much convinced that I will not get the same look as the other beams - but if I can darken the entire thing up a shade or two it will at least blend in with the others a bit more.

 

Btw, it is my own house - so no clients except myself to worry about! (and I have lots of other stuff to work on ... when I run into these "snags" I usually just sit down and have a beer and stare at them for a couple days ... eventually something will come to mind <my buddy's soln is to resaw and plane another piece to make a 1/4" veneer that will take the stain ... unfortunately I don't own a saw that will cut a 13"x1/2"x20' piece of fir ... amd it would be a waste of a tree anyway!>).

 

 

[Bombarde16]

I say let it alone and take it as a lesson in the finishing dangers associated with conifers.  It really doesn't look that bad and now you know why stains and softwoods are a treacherous mix.

[wtnhighlander]

Shellac over it, then use gel stain again, as a glaze. I've had pretty good luck doing that over pine.