This is not SE Asia

[Eric.]

I only apologize that I missed the drama.    Tisk, tisk, naughty boys...y'all know mo betta.

[wdwerker]

Yep! Mike is on the right path. I tell clients if you want a low price, MDF or particle board go to my competitors or IKEA.

If you want quality materials and craftsmanship let me know your budget and I might be able to design a build that will make a win win deal for both of us.

[Shane Jimerfield]

Thanks for all this guys. It has helped me with one client so far.

Not sure what was said that got the thread shut down. I was out of the loop for a bit floating down the Yampa...but that's another story.

Was it deleted?

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[rodger.]

I just totally blew away my estimation of time for a client. I thought I could get the job done in 10 hours, but I just passed my 10th hour and I'm still only about 2/3 done. I hope I get better at the time thing in the future so I don't rip myself off anymore.

[Fricasseekid]

I always seem to sell myself way too short. But I feel kinda guilty if I say what I think the piece is really worth. I am constantly reminding myself: The best business transactions are ones in which both parties feel like they are giving something up. Not sure where I got that from.

Honestly, I just need to get more efficient in the shop and use my time more wisely.

[wdwerker]

I think the best deals are win - win. I have the skills, shop and available schedule to make your dream come true and you have had enough experience with poor quality and service to be willing to pay to have it done right this time.

[Fricasseekid]

That's debatable. We may even be referring to the exact same thing. Glass half full/half empty kinda deal...

But I think the loss/loss deal cones into play cause if both parties feel like they are giving something up then there is no one that has been manipulated into seeing value where there is none. Sure, we could all sit here and harp on how much time and effort we put into building the highest quality furniture around, but that's doesn't make any of it priceless.

[Eric.]

I stopped taking commissions for exactly that reason...I felt like I was losing in the transaction.  People don't want to pay me what my time, effort, skills are worth to me.  I definitely overvalue all three, but it doesn't matter...if I can't feel like it's a win/win, like Steve said, then it's not worth it.  Most of the time when I was working on commission builds, throughout the project I was wishing I could be building something else, and thinking all the while, "I'm not getting paid enough for this."  I'm much happier building what I like to build and reaping only the reward of self-satisfaction.

 

It blows my mind how people will pay millions for some stupid painting that looked like it was done by a five year old, but a beautiful piece of perfectly crafted furniture?...it's time to haggle.  I don't have it in me to play that game, especially when I risk ruining my favorite hobby over it.  If I had no other source of income, I suppose it would be a different story.  But I know for a fact that if I turned my passion into an occupation, I would end up hating it after a very short time.

[ChetlovesMer]

Okay, I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but since I have a "regular" job that pays the bills and feeds the kids, I only accept 1-4 woodworking projects a year for clients. Because I do so few jobs I am able to really pick and choose the jobs I do.

 

My approach is somewhat along the lines of what Mike mentioned above. Since I turn down 90% of the work that people come to me with I can usually tell if I'm going to do a project for somebody based on how they broach the subject. If somebody comes to me and says "Chet, I need a kitchen table." I don't even go there. If somebody comes to me and says "Chet, I need you to build me a kitchen table." Ah, that's a different story. We may have something to talk about.

 

My usual first question to a client is "Why do you want me to build this for you?" or "Why do you feel buying this from an Ikea won't suit your needs?"

 

After the client convinces me that they really "need" a custom piece, then I have to decide if the piece is interesting enough for me to want to do it. Or, I have been known to be talked into a piece just because the client really felt they needed me and paid handsomely for my time.

 

I know that this isn't the situation for somebody making a living woodworking. You have to continually make product to make money. I'm in a lucky situation where I don't "need" to woodwork. But I "get to" woodwork.

 

I turn down way more people than turn down me.

 

So, here's my advice. Somebody early on in this thread said "Get better Clients". I believe that is really the answer. Unless you need the work to feed your family, be patient. Take on only projects that will improve your portfolio, improve your skills, improve your pocket book, or for some other reason really interest you. If somebody says "Well, I can get that for half the price at Ikea." Consider yourself lucky, you dodged a bullet. That person is looking for a cabinet, not YOUR cabinet.

 

Be patient. Build your portfolio. The right clients will come. I've been doing custom work for 25 years and I still love it because I only do projects that I want to do.

 

Again, if you have to make a living at this, then forget my advice and listen to Wdwerker.

[wdwerker]

Chet is right. The busier my schedule gets the pickier I get at taking jobs. I only build quality so if they want a standard size unless they need special features it might not be a good fit. When they realize that I will walk away at the first hint of a competitive bid situation because if price is that important then they don't want my level of quality.

When the economy was so bad I took what I could get but I never had to build with melamine, particle board or MDF through those lean years.