Lots of thin coats

[Bobby Slack]

In the past, I was always in a hurry and rushed the process. This last project I was involved and took my time and applied a whole bunch of light coats with a rag and personally I liked it. Part because I think that there is more margin for error and second is because I am guessing that is better.

What do the finishing gurus say?

My thoughts are that the only drawback to slow finishing is the time involved. I can live with that.

[thewoodwhisperer]

I am a big fan of thinner coats. I even go to the extent of thinning the final coat pretty significantly so that it dries a little faster, resulting in a smoother end product. But one drawback to the thin coat is something that can happen on a heavy wear surface. If we are talking about an oil-based varnish, each coat is like a layer of plastic wrap the is fused to the layer below it. If that top layer is very thin, daily wear and tear can actually wear right through that top layer exposing the one beneath it. The end result is a witness line looks like crap. So I have since stopped doing that last thinning step on high-wear surfaces. I still use thin wiping coats, but I use the full-strength stuff right out of the can.

[Pete Bennett]

Lots of thin coats is the only answer to almost all finishes. Try a thick coat of French polish and all you'll do is rip up the entire surface. Believe me it aint pretty and neither is the language. Although I rarely have need for varnish, my preferred method is almost the exact opposite of Mark's. I thin the first couple of coats 50-50 with turps or white spirit, wipe them on and let them soak in well before continuing. But, remember, always rub down between coats. Sure it may take longer, but, unless you're like me trying to earn a living from what you do, does a few more days to a pristine finish really matter. Everything about making a piece to be proud of is important from the very first ideas through the timber selection, preparation, making, trimming and finishing. But it is the finishing that will be seen most by Mr. average when he walks into the room and sees what you've done. Some may open a drawer to see the wonderful dovetails, but, most will wipe their hands across your gleaming impossibly smooth ultra flat surface that exudes quality, craftsmanship, and even the tiniest detail in the grain you've worked so hard to enhance. If it's sticky or they catch a fibre or worse still pick up a splinter, You'll be the first to know about it.

Take all the time it needs and if you feel it needs more give it more.

Pete

[Bobby Slack]

ThanKs, I was telling this today to my wife and also agreeing with what you said, that thin coats has more margin for error and feels a lot smoother.

I did not dilute the stain and I may do that on another project. So far, I like how this is coming together.

Lots of thin coats is the only answer to almost all finishes. Try a thick coat of French polish and all you'll do is rip up the entire surface. Believe me it aint pretty and neither is the language. Although I rarely have need for varnish, my preferred method is almost the exact opposite of Mark's. I thin the first couple of coats 50-50 with turps or white spirit, wipe them on and let them soak in well before continuing. But, remember, always rub down between coats. Sure it may take longer, but, unless you're like me trying to earn a living from what you do, does a few more days to a pristine finish really matter. Everything about making a piece to be proud of is important from the very first ideas through the timber selection, preparation, making, trimming and finishing. But it is the finishing that will be seen most by Mr. average when he walks into the room and sees what you've done. Some may open a drawer to see the wonderful dovetails, but, most will wipe their hands across your gleaming impossibly smooth ultra flat surface that exudes quality, craftsmanship, and even the tiniest detail in the grain you've worked so hard to enhance. If it's sticky or they catch a fibre or worse still pick up a splinter, You'll be the first to know about it.

Take all the time it needs and if you feel it needs more give it more.

Pete

[Bobby Slack]

I guess I should edit myself. I used sikkens at full strength and what I meant by a thin coat was that I applied this with a rag and left very little finish on the surface per passes. I also kissed the material when needed with 220 grit sandpaper between coats.

So many full strength ... and not a whole lot of material per coat.

Did I use the wrong terminology then?

I am a big fan of thinner coats. I even go to the extent of thinning the final coat pretty significantly so that it dries a little faster, resulting in a smoother end product. But one drawback to the thin coat is something that can happen on a heavy wear surface. If we are talking about an oil-based varnish, each coat is like a layer of plastic wrap the is fused to the layer below it. If that top layer is very thin, daily wear and tear can actually wear right through that top layer exposing the one beneath it. The end result is a witness line looks like crap. So I have since stopped doing that last thinning step on high-wear surfaces. I still use thin wiping coats, but I use the full-strength stuff right out of the can.

[ztifpatrick]

In the past, I was always in a hurry and rushed the process. This last project I was involved and took my time and applied a whole bunch of light coats with a rag and personally I liked it. Part because I think that there is more margin for error and second is because I am guessing that is better.

What do the finishing gurus say?

My thoughts are that the only drawback to slow finishing is the time involved. I can live with that.

This always works good for me too. I usually use a wipe on poly or thin the canned stuff.I've found that if you brush on the 1st coat full stregth and sand it smooth when dry.Then finish with with wiped on coats 4-6, you get a quicker build. It just speeds the process.

[PaulMarcel]

But it is the finishing that will be seen most by Mr. average when he walks into the room and sees what you've done. Some may open a drawer to see the wonderful dovetails, but, most will wipe their hands across your gleaming impossibly smooth ultra flat surface that exudes quality, craftsmanship, and even the tiniest detail in the grain you've worked so hard to enhance. If it's sticky or they catch a fibre or worse still pick up a splinter, You'll be the first to know about it.

Pete definitely has a good point there. A friend of mine comes over often unannounced and if something is sanded for finishing or a couple coats into a finish, he always starts feeling the surface. Depending, I'll only start sanding after coat #2; if he comes by and I haven't sanded yet, his face drops "why is this so rough?!" Eh, I have built-in quality control

[Bobby Slack]

Nice friends you have

I was very pleased with the stain and started applying the clear coat also by hand. Also using Sikkens clear coat. On my second coat I noticed a bunch of dust balls inside the finish and I was extremely upset ... at the same time I took this kind of easy because this is not cancer and can be fixed.

I sanded the stain and had to re-apply my color stain. The only issue is that the wood is not grabbing all the color uniformly as it was .... more coats?

Pete definitely has a good point there. A friend of mine comes over often unannounced and if something is sanded for finishing or a couple coats into a finish, he always starts feeling the surface. Depending, I'll only start sanding after coat #2; if he comes by and I haven't sanded yet, his face drops "why is this so rough?!" Eh, I have built-in quality control

[AceHoleInOne]

Did you sand with 220? You may want to drop down a grit to about 180. With the finish in the wood combined with perhaps sanding with a fine(er) grit may be sealing your wood just a bit too much.

-Ace-

[Pete Bennett]

Did you sand with 220? You may want to drop down a grit to about 180. With the finish in the wood combined with perhaps sanding with a fine(er) grit may be sealing your wood just a bit too much.

-Ace-

A good point there and well spotted. I am always hearing of people who sand their Oak down to 320 and finer. Complete waste of time and utterly counter productive. Sanding more than almost anything else we do to our finishing compresses the fibres. Oak and quite a few Hardwoods are open grained, (a difficult term to describe scientifically but true all the same)If you take these timbers finer than 180 all you'll do is what you state. You'll compress the fibres to such an extent they will not be able to absorb stains evenly. Some thing that can be a problem in any wood as the density is unlikely to be constant on each and every piece and not always in the same piece! It is much better to try and judge the grain structure and make allowances for this. Once you are down to a paper grit that feels just about as smooth as you are likely to get, you will be better off applying extra coats and flatting these off instead. After you've completely filled the grain you can go as fine as you like. For virtually all my Oak I fill with probably four or five coats of very thin varnish if it's likely to need a tougher finish, sanding in between with up to 320 grit then for the final sanding I'll use 500 or 600 grit wet and dry, often using a little turps as lube. Then I'll bees wax and buff. If it's a piece of furniture I'll probably give up to ten micro fine coats of shellac in meths, sanding in between as above.

Pete

[Bobby Slack]

Good point about the grit. I was using 220 and will go down to 180 and see what kind of results I get.

I never use finer grits than 220 ...

A good point there and well spotted. I am always hearing of people who sand their Oak down to 320 and finer. Complete waste of time and utterly counter productive. Sanding more than almost anything else we do to our finishing compresses the fibres. Oak and quite a few Hardwoods are open grained, (a difficult term to describe scientifically but true all the same)If you take these timbers finer than 180 all you'll do is what you state. You'll compress the fibres to such an extent they will not be able to absorb stains evenly. Some thing that can be a problem in any wood as the density is unlikely to be constant on each and every piece and not always in the same piece! It is much better to try and judge the grain structure and make allowances for this. Once you are down to a paper grit that feels just about as smooth as you are likely to get, you will be better off applying extra coats and flatting these off instead. After you've completely filled the grain you can go as fine as you like. For virtually all my Oak I fill with probably four or five coats of very thin varnish if it's likely to need a tougher finish, sanding in between with up to 320 grit then for the final sanding I'll use 500 or 600 grit wet and dry, often using a little turps as lube. Then I'll bees wax and buff. If it's a piece of furniture I'll probably give up to ten micro fine coats of shellac in meths, sanding in between as above.

Pete