Trip Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Everyone have fun shoveling snow over the weekend? No time for the shop? Well, it's Monday and and a great day for some cyber-woodworking... Here's a Tip to forget the snow and start the week! Remember those planters from last September? Well here they are enduring this weekend's snow storm – I’m serious about my outdoor projects being outdoors 7x24x365... I've posted parts of my outdoor finish process, but it's ever been gathered all in one place... With this weekend's snow, what better time to talk about weatherproofing your outdoor pieces... Which sets-up today's Tip... For outdoor furniture, rot starts from the ground-up... Stop the Rot! Tip #10: UHMW pads... In over a decade, I’ve never had rot develop in any of my outdoor pieces... And UHMW pads are a big part of that success... Say the piece ends in a 1 ½" x 1 ½" square foot (above)... I cut the UHMW from sheet stock into 1 ¼" x 1 ¼" square pads and bevel ¼”... This makes the pad quite hard to notice from above... http://www.mcmaster.com/#8752k314/=10u42c2 I secure the pad with #8 x 1 ¼" stainless round head wood screws. I squirt some CA into the pilot holes to reinforce the wood fibers and prevent rot starting in the screw holes... http://www.mcmaster.com/#wood-screws/=10u41tf Note: I sure hope the clocking is inadvertent --- if I took the time to clock screws on the bottom of furniture legs, then my OCD would be incurable... Closeup of outdoor dining set completed in '09 Two species of Genuine Mahogany to provide contrasting tones Sits uncovered outdoors 7/24/365 Original finish: CPES, Epifanes Gloss Never re-coated Image taken in July 2014 @hhh EOS 50/2.8 Closeup of finish after five years exposure, several hurricanes, blizzards, etc. @hhh EOS 50/4 Finish Procedure: Sand to 150. Seal with CPES. Depending on species, it can take from 1 to 5 coats of CPES to seal the stock... Two is typical... It's expensive (about $110/gal), but the best outdoor sealer available -- IMHO... Note: Due to a mfg/distributor "disagreement", genuine CPES has become harder to find (although look-alikes have become prevalent). You can purchase the stuff directly at the source: http://www.rotdoctor.com/products/product.html. One nice thing about purchasing from the Rot Doctor, you can call the technical help line and talk to guy who invented the stuff... And he is really smart Note: Andy Miller (aka, BWT, WTO Mentor) uses West 105/206 as a sealer --- and that also works well... He's got a YouTube video of a Mahogany finish using 105/206, then applying Pettit marine varnish.. I suspect if you substituted 105/207 and thinned it 50:50 with Xylene, you'd get something akin to CPES... I had to do this once when I couldn't source CPES, and it seems to work AOK... Here's the detailed procedure: http://www.smithandcompany.org/varnishpriming.html The key to the finish is applying the first coat of thinned varnish before the last coat of CPES cures (within 24hrs). I start the topcoat schedule with thinned 50:50 Epifanes high-solids high-UV gloss varnish http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=92&familyName=Epifanes+Gloss+Clear+Varnish. But you can certainly use Pettit... When the CPES cures, the first layer of varnish is bonded to the epoxy layer... Lightly scuff the first varnish layer (you don't want to expose the CPES layer), and apply another four to eight coats of varnish according to the instructions on the can... Yea... Yea... Before someone says it, marine finishes are expensive, but they sure work... If you think about the totality of your project, you might use around $300 or so for an outdoor dining set, but how much is your time worth? And considering the finish is going to last years.... It's worth it... BTW: the UHMW pads have another great benefit... You can slide tables, chairs, etc over the deck and not scratch the deck's finish... Around here, that keeps the wife happy... There's a lot to be said for keeping the wife happy... Happy shoveling... ... and Stop The Rot! <edit> Couple of notes: I always start my outdoor finish schedule with gloss topcoats... Some pieces may benefit from a semi-gloss to hide scratches... If I need a semi-gloss, I add a flattening agent to the last coat of gloss varnish... Manufacturers sell proprietary flattening agents, but I use this: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=135&familyName=Interlux+Flattening+Agent+for+One+Part+Finishes for all one-part varnishes, poly, etc... It comes with a mix table for Semi-Gloss, Matte, etc... I've gone to Matte, but I don't think it looks so hot... YMMV... To control inventory, it's much better to purchase ONLY gloss topcoats and add flatteners as needed... Purchasing cans of gloss, semi-gloss, etc is a waste of time, money and space... Further, many coats of semi-gloss muddy the grain... So the finish looks much better with coats one to [maybe] four in gloss and coat five in semi-gloss... This goes for products like Arm-R-Seal as well... So, I purchase ARS in clear gloss gallon size, then add a bit of flattener to the last coat if I want a semi-gloss sheen... So maybe two tips for the price of one? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 That finish looks great! Are those pieces exposed to full sun? Is it available in a lower sheen & if so, do you have experience with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted January 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 ==>Are those pieces exposed to full sun? Exposed to full sun... Except at night --- or covered in 32" of snow... The outdoor dining set (from which the bench photos were taken) was finished some five+ years before the photos were taken... So that's five plus years in all weather... I'll get about 10 years before refinishing... ==>Is it available in a lower sheen & if so, do you have experience with it? Yes and Yes... I've used the Matte, but don't like it... Nowadays, I only purchase gloss finishes and apply gloss for all coats until the last... It it's a hard finish, I rub-it-out... If it's poly/varnish/etc, then I add a flattening agent. Flatteners come with a mix table to get the sheen you want... http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=135&familyName=Interlux+Flattening+Agent+for+One+Part+Finishes I'll update the post with more info... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted January 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Tip #10a: To control inventory, it's much better to purchase ONLY gloss topcoats and add flatteners as needed... Purchasing cans of gloss, semi-gloss, etc is a waste of time, money and space... Further, many coats of semi-gloss muddy the grain... So the finish looks much better with coats one to say four in gloss and coat five in semi-gloss... This goes for products like Arm-R-Seal as well... So, I purchase ARS in clear gloss gallon size, then add a bit of flattener to the last coat if I want a semi-gloss sheen... So maybe two tips for the price of one? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 39 minutes ago, Mike. said: It it just me or do resealed cans of poly always cure inside the can? Why don't I have that problem with lacquers? Because poly cures by oxidation and lacquer (at least nitrocellulose lacquer) cures by evaporation of solvent. If there's any oxygen in the can of poly when you reseal it, some of the finish will oxidize and cure, leading to those lumpy solids in the can. That's why the retailers sell those bottles of bloxygen (some kind of inert gas heavier than air and will stay in the can after you squirt it in), or some guys fill their cans with marbles, or squeeze them with a handscrew clamp to get all excess air out. Theoretically if there is air inside a can of NC lacquer, some of the solvent can evaporate into the air up to its saturation point, but I would assume this just changes the solution concentration (minutely) and (I think) does nothing to change the character of the finish. (Not a chemist, nor do I play one on TV) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteJr Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Very good information here and thanks for posting triple h (hhh). My experience with a recent project where I applied 4 coats of satin resulted in a very dull finish (muddy). I'll probably not do that again and do gloss with a satin as the final coat. The product was Arm-R-Seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted January 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Thanks Pete... Avoiding layering flatteners does improve clarity... I’m kind of surprised more folks haven’t noticed the impact... I suppose it depends on what you’re used to... Much of my film finishing is shellac, which is probably the clearest film finish available... Anything that impacts clarity gets noticed... The other reason to limit yourself to gloss is cost, storage and finish age-outs... If you keep cans of gloss, semi, satin and/or matte, then the odds of one or more going bad is much higher than if you just keep gloss and add flatteners as needed... Once I started managing the sheen myself, the number of cans on my shelf dropped by almost a third... It really does help... And a quart of flattening agent goes a long way... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Please post comments about finishing kitchen counters in this thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 16 minutes ago, Eric. said: Please post comments about finishing kitchen counters in this thread... Ya. Sorry it did end up being more than a simple question. My apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan G Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 On 1/25/2016 at 11:37 AM, hhh said: Finish Procedure: Sand to 150. Seal with CPES. Depending on species, it can take from 1 to 5 coats of CPES to seal the stock... Two is typical... It's expensive (about $110/gal), but the best outdoor sealer available -- IMHO... hhh- Do you ever spray the CPES or any other part of you finish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted January 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I wouldn't run adhesives through a gun that you care about... I've used disposable guns for adhesives, at al --- and they are OK for just getting coating onto the surface for brushing-in. They cost about $15, you run the coating then toss the gun.. HF has one for $12 that works OK... That's about as cheap as they get... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan G Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Thanks....Was just curious. Those HF guns are nearly throw away for what they cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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