Say goodbye to the Bosch Reaxx


Tom Cancelleri

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From a total layman/neanderthal perspective, I read the two patents listed in the judges decision and they seem extraordinarily vague and broad. I feel that the whole situation has become a bunch of kids building forts and kicking sand at each other in a sandbox , all while people are still losing fingers.

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1 hour ago, CandorLush said:

From a total layman/neanderthal perspective, I read the two patents listed in the judges decision and they seem extraordinarily vague and broad. I feel that the whole situation has become a bunch of kids building forts and kicking sand at each other in a sandbox , all while people are still losing fingers.

I don't really agree. They seem to boil down to a woodworking tool that detects the presence of the users body contacting the blade, and retracting the blade under the table. The language has to be very specific in patent law, which is why it reads so weirdly to you and I as laymen.

That specificity of language is one of the major problems with patent law, it's pretty much impossible to write a patent that will stand up in court without hiring a patent attorney. I've known some folks who have tried to get a patent on their own, and they both gave up after a few years. The company I work for gave up because our market is to small (still millions of dollars) to validate the cost of patenting.

While Gass' tactics are deplorable (the lobbying), I don't think the major manufacturers have been much better. The big association that represents them argued that the technology would add over $100 in price to $200 saws... Which all seem like deathtraps anyways. Their response was to make the plastic blade guard standard, which it seems everyone just takes off their saw anyways because it's inconvenient.

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1 hour ago, BonPacific said:

I don't really agree. They seem to boil down to a woodworking tool that detects the presence of the users body contacting the blade, and retracting the blade under the table. The language has to be very specific in patent law, which is why it reads so weirdly to you and I as laymen.

That specificity of language is one of the major problems with patent law, it's pretty much impossible to write a patent that will stand up in court without hiring a patent attorney. I've known some folks who have tried to get a patent on their own, and they both gave up after a few years. The company I work for gave up because our market is to small (still millions of dollars) to validate the cost of patenting.

While Gass' tactics are deplorable (the lobbying), I don't think the major manufacturers have been much better. The big association that represents them argued that the technology would add over $100 in price to $200 saws... Which all seem like deathtraps anyways. Their response was to make the plastic blade guard standard, which it seems everyone just takes off their saw anyways because it's inconvenient.

Wait the blade guards are supposed to come out of the packaging and go on the saw?

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12 hours ago, Mike. said:

Of course patents help innovation.  With no property rights you have incentive to create, develop or buy property.

Cliff, if you built your self a nice house and the neighborhood squatters wouldn't leave, you just call the police and they are escorted out.  Patent law is no different.  It protects innovators from the squatters.

 

Yeah but that isn't how it works. A company gets hard on cash, some other company comes in, buys their patents then aggressively pursues anyone that *might* be infringing, and the people they are squashing are small innovators that don't have the capital to defend themselves from something they'd probably win if they could afford to fight it. The other company does this 20-30k times, stacks up every patent it can and screws everyone. 

This is my understanding of how the world works. Like I said, I am far from an expert. I've collected enough info to make a small stance. :)

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1 minute ago, Mike. said:

Well, like anything it can be abused :) , but that is like saying you hate woodworking because some people make stuff out of pallet wood. 

In general way, sure. But those guys making pallet wood crap aren't coming over and tearing the projects out of my hands and stomping on it then serving me with a court order to never do that again. 

I could be convinced with a good argument I'm sure, though I don't know that it would do anyone any good. And I just don't care that much.

Now.. if we're talking about the ludicrous amount of money the FCC charges and forces you to pay if you want to design a board (ex: a product with a custom board) with wifi on it - well that just makes me angry. I've had several business/product ideas but am really not willing to shell out the money for something that would at best be a niche market. For instance - autodetecting dust level in a collector bin that connects via wifi. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 9/14/2016 at 10:35 AM, Mike. said:

I am glad Sawstop was able to protect their IP against Bosch.  I am a big fan of intellectual property laws.

I don't think sawstop are dead in 5 years (when their patent expires), but I do wish they would innovate beyond just a jobsite saw.  Who knows, maybe they have some stuff in the pipeline, but are keeping powder dry until a patent expires. 

Sawstop has done some things right, most notably building a quality product.  Their only real competition is Powermatic.  If PM does a flesh sense thing, then Sawstop will just have to compete on price against them.  So they will lose market share, but I don't think it will kill them. 

Sawstop probably has some new patents on the jobsite saw, which will protect them in that market even when their cabinet saw patents expire.  I don't know how well the jobsite thing is selling.  On the one hand, it is a huge market.  On the other hand, 99% of the people I see on jobsite are using a $90 ryobi saw or some duct taped together craig's list piece of poop.  But it might be different in New England, were contractors all went to MIT. 

Jumping way back here for a second, I think the reason they targeted the jobsite/contractor market is because I believe that is where the real money in table saws is. I think giant, fancy woodworking table saws like we all have/crave is a relatively small part of the table saw market. I think most of the market is in the jobsite/contractor saws. I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure I read that somewhere awhile back and it makes sense to me. 

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