Adjustable Angle Frogs?

[outofstepper]

Take this with a grain of salt -- bear in mind I'm new, but how come there

aren't bench planes with adjustable (angle) frogs?

I see LN makes multiple frogs -- but that seems like an expensive way to go

given just how many planes there are without figuring multiple frogs per plane.

Has this been tried before? too clap-trap to work well?

I can envision (in my mind's eye) a bench plane with an adjustable frog.. say

12 to 45 degrees or so? Maybe that leaves no room for the other mechanisms?

Just a thought.

-Tony

[mattvan]

Good question! Considering frogs on metal bodied planes are also cast vs assembled from individual pieces I wonder if it's a matter of "just not tried yet"?

With new manufacturing methods it could probably be done, but for it to be rock solid to avoid chatter, have a dead flat bed for the blade to rest on, or for it to be even capable of moving to precise Pre-set angles I imagine the price would be pretty steep.

I'm only imagining it, but I wonder if the final price would be equivalent to buying the original plane and then the individual frogs like LN already has?

I'd love to hear from a manufacturer on this. Maybe we should contact Thomas Lie-Nielsen himself?

[mattvan]

After reading your question about the frogs something just dawned on me. Typically the various frog angles are meant for use primarily with a smoothing plane only.

Often a woodworker wouldn't be overly concerned with using a different pitched frog in their jack or jointer planes since these are tools meant for rough and refining tasks. The real concern of a plane's blade angle comes when it's time to finish the task prior to applying the finish.

A smoother's sole task is to make a surface look as nice as possible, so this is when you would want the most appropriate pitch for the job. Thus you might have a frog with a higher pitch for your smoother, but not worry about your other planes.

In the end, you'd only need the one frog for the smoother, which is typically where it's intended to be used.

[RenaissanceWW]

This is one of those "why hasn't someone tried this before" obvious questions that makes me wonder if it has been tried and failed. Like Matt says, the action of the frog would need to be able to be locked down to prevent any vibration and chatter of the blade. I would worry about durability over time and whether the mechanism could stand the torque put on it from the lever cap and planing use.

Somebody give this a shot and report back. The other thing to consider is the gimmicky factor that would probably have many woodworkers booing from the sidelines and making it difficult to market the product. This sounds like a Bridge City Tools kind of invention. Their stuff gets the hackles up of the traditionalists all the time and I think John Economaki personally thrives on that.

Tony, send John a message and ask for his thoughts.

[wilburpan]

The new Popular Woodworking Magazine has an article about a wooden jack plane where you can adjust the bed angle by putting in a wedge shaped piece of wood on the bed of the plane.

Still, if I was regularly working wood where a high angle frog was needed that often, I'd just bite the bullet and get a HAF plane. It's a lot better than trying to deal with a piece of walnut crotch with a standard angle plane, and much much much better than getting a section of tearout so big and deep that you've screwed up your piece.

[nikbrown]

This sounds like a Bridge City Tools kind of invention. Their stuff gets the hackles up of the traditionalists all the time and I think John Economaki personally thrives on that.

Tony, send John a message and ask for his thoughts.

Like this one? (in their Discontinued Tools section)

http://www.bridgecitytools.com/Products/Planes/VP-60+Variable+Pitch+Plane

VP-60 Variable Pitch Plane

[mattvan]

And there you go! Leave it to John lol.

Another thought on the higher pitch frog, isn't to swap out the standard frog but instead to use it along with a back bevel on the blade.

I tried the back bevel before, and had mixed results. I think it had everything to do with inexperience sharpening it?

For those who don't know what a back bevel is, instead of having a flat back on one side and the bevel on the other you have a bevel on both sides.

The bevel on the back is much smaller and only pitches a few degrees. If you wanted something equal to a 55 degree pitched frog you would hone a 10 degree bevel on the back (standard bed angle is 45 degrees + 10 degree back bevel = 55 degree).

The MK.II homing guide from Veritas already has this option for sharpening blades built in to it. This way you could essentially convert any plane into a high pitched plane for the price of a blade. But I'd still stick with my smoothers.

[outofstepper]

Well who's a horse's arse?

*raises hand*

Thanks nikB. Funny its in their discontinued section.

[nikbrown]

Well who's a horse's arse?

*raises hand*

Thanks nikB. Funny its in their discontinued section.

I knew I had seen one somewhere but it wasn't until Shannon mentioned John Economaki that I remembered where.

[lwllms]

A number of different adjustable pitch planes have been tried over the years. None were successful but the most successful was made by Metallic Plane Company. They tried a couple versions and were in production briefly. Here's the 1867 Patent:

http://tinyurl.com/6zhsrso

Walt has a web page devoted to these at:

http://www.brasscityrecords.com/toolworks/museum/Auburn_metallic%20plane%20Co/Auburn_metallic%20_plane.html