Dewalt RAS rebuild

[mdbuilder]

A couple weeks ago I spotted a craigslist add for an old Dewalt / Black & Decker radial arm saw. I have a working 1956 model MBF which is a nice machine but a bit underpowered @ 3/4 hp. I've had my eye out for something with a bit more umph, this one is a model 1511 circa 1968 with something like 1.5 HP. I saw something like because this era of saws was rated with "developed hp" not real hp.

Anyway, took a few hours to drive and get it last weekend and tore it all to pieces once I got it home. Overall it is in easily restorable condition but had a few issues. It had been used to cut aluminum at some point and there were aluminum chips / dust in all sorts of interesting places including inside the motor and inside the rollere bearings supporting the carriage.

[mdbuilder]

Spent the week painting, spent Saturday reassembling. At this point the motor is still in pieces, I am waiting for a bearing splitter to swap out the motor bearings before reassembly...

[mdbuilder]

A few detail shots, I've spent some time at the buffing wheel for all the bare metal parts.

[mdbuilder]

I'll work on a new table this week, if the bearings and splitter arrive in time it'll be back in service next weekend

This one is interesting, the nose cap was held on by 2 #6 short wood screws!! Needless to say I replaced them with appropriate 1" long 8-32 machine screws, had to chase the threads a bit due to mangling by the wood screws.

[harryangel69]

She is looking good. Looks like you started with a good base. Nothing like an bring new life into an old tool.

[mdbuilder]

Got er done Table built, new bearing in the motor. Really happy with how smooth it runs with the new bearings.

[rmac]

Pretty spiffy!

-- Russ

[Vic]

While it's not my favorite tool in the shop, beautifully done rebuild!

[mdbuilder]

Thanks! Spent the day moving things around the shop and clearing out some old stuff to make room for the new saw. Even ripped down a 4*4 foot sheet of 1/4" ply for the sacrificial top. Normally I'd use my Unisaw but what the heck, the outfeed was covered in tools from the rebuild and there is something fitting about using the RAS to make it's top. Contrary to popular belief it is possible safely <g>.

[cosmicsedso]

Thanks! Spent the day moving things around the shop and clearing out some old stuff to make room for the new saw. Even ripped down a 4*4 foot sheet of 1/4" ply for the sacrificial top. Normally I'd use my Unisaw but what the heck, the outfeed was covered in tools from the rebuild and there is something fitting about using the RAS to make it's top. Contrary to popular belief it is possible safely <g>.

Wow! Nice job! I have recently inherited my fathers RAS which is also a #1511. My first google got me here and I have so many questions. The www is amazing huh?

I am just finishing off building my house so I am semi conversant with some basic woodworking skills but I know enough to know that in the wrong hands (mine?) a RAS could be extremely dangerous. Hope you dont mind a few questions.

I notice you have a key in the nosecap? Good idea I would have thought.

What is the long bright shiny lever/guide on the blade guard? Mine has a sort of knife blade.

What made u suspect the bearings in the motor? Mine has no play and sounds really sweet.

How often would you expect to replace the deck? I've already made a bit of a mess of mine.

I read about a blade brake which sounds like an excellent idea. Any thoughts?

Any advice you would give a newbie?

Cheers

PS This RAS came with spindle moulders so I'm guessing I really need to find out where to get advice about that as well!

[mdbuilder]

Wow! Nice job! I have recently inherited my fathers RAS which is also a #1511. My first google got me here and I have so many questions. The www is amazing huh?

I am just finishing off building my house so I am semi conversant with some basic woodworking skills but I know enough to know that in the wrong hands (mine?) a RAS could be extremely dangerous. Hope you dont mind a few questions.

I notice you have a key in the nosecap? Good idea I would have thought.

What is the long bright shiny lever/guide on the blade guard? Mine has a sort of knife blade.

What made u suspect the bearings in the motor? Mine has no play and sounds really sweet.

How often would you expect to replace the deck? I've already made a bit of a mess of mine.

I read about a blade brake which sounds like an excellent idea. Any thoughts?

Any advice you would give a newbie?

Cheers

PS This RAS came with spindle moulders so I'm guessing I really need to find out where to get advice about that as well!

Well, let's see. There is a forum specifically on the Dewalt RAS's here: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

The gold standard refence manual is by the now deceased "Mr. Sawdust" but his book is still available here: http://mrsawdust.com/ This one is worth the $30 price, you can find a few others on Amazon used by searching "Radial Arm Saw", all good info but most of them don't have the spefici machine adjustment info the first book has. Also, John Eakes's treatise on adjusting and using the machine is excellent and available as an electronic download. Found here: http://joneakes.com/products

The shiny lever / guide on the saw guard is the anti-kickback mechanism used when ripping. If yours has 1 fixed blade it is a splitter which rides in the kerf keeping it open. Do not ever rip without the anti-kickback installed.

I changed the motor bearings because they are 43 years old, this is a 1968 saw. After pulling the motor apart, one bearing felt totally OK, the other still spun OK but felt dry. In anycase, if you have the skills and equipment to do the change it is a cheap task, the bearings cost less than $10. After 40+ years they will sound fine until they are not but if they fail they can screw up the shaft and then you have a problem...

My new table is per the design in the Mr. Sawdust book, 2 layers of MDF with steel bars embedded. I do not ever expect to replace it given the fact that you add a layer of replaceable 1/4" ply on top. You cut into the ply, not the table so if you never cut in to your table you don't have to replace it. Now, I built a new one because the previos owner of my machine cut completely through his and propped up the now loose halfs with lengths of 2*4's and deck screws

The blade brake is built in to the motor on the 1511, it is a centrifigal arrangement with fly weights. At operating speed it is disengaged, when you shut down the motor as it slow the weights come in a a small friction pad inside the motor rubs on the end bell. Works well, an 8" blade stops in a couple seconds, 10" in about 6 and a dado head 15 or so. The bigger and heavier the blade the longer it takes to stop because it has more inertia.

As a beginner first read and understand those 2 books. Stick with simple cross cuts first. Do not ever have your hands in the path the carriage takes with the motor running. Do not attempt a rip cut unless you've freshened the table and totally aligned everything according to those 2 books, understand what you did and why, understand how to adjust the blade guard and kick back preventer for the cut etc.

[TimV]

Very nice job. And now after you've completed the job, here is some helpful information, lol. There is a website, Vintage Machinery that has a lot of great information concern 'old arn'. And a forum that is a great help too. I frequent there regularly. The posters have a tremendous amount of knowledge. OWWM

Tim

Here's my DeWalt

[mdbuilder]

Yep, I posted it over there as well. GWI I presume?

[cosmicsedso]

Well, let's see. There is a forum specifically on the Dewalt RAS's here: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

The gold standard refence manual is by the now deceased "Mr. Sawdust" but his book is still available here: http://mrsawdust.com/ This one is worth the $30 price, you can find a few others on Amazon used by searching "Radial Arm Saw", all good info but most of them don't have the spefici machine adjustment info the first book has. Also, John Eakes's treatise on adjusting and using the machine is excellent and available as an electronic download. Found here: http://joneakes.com/products

The shiny lever / guide on the saw guard is the anti-kickback mechanism used when ripping. If yours has 1 fixed blade it is a splitter which rides in the kerf keeping it open. Do not ever rip without the anti-kickback installed.

I changed the motor bearings because they are 43 years old, this is a 1968 saw. After pulling the motor apart, one bearing felt totally OK, the other still spun OK but felt dry. In anycase, if you have the skills and equipment to do the change it is a cheap task, the bearings cost less than $10. After 40+ years they will sound fine until they are not but if they fail they can screw up the shaft and then you have a problem...

My new table is per the design in the Mr. Sawdust book, 2 layers of MDF with steel bars embedded. I do not ever expect to replace it given the fact that you add a layer of replaceable 1/4" ply on top. You cut into the ply, not the table so if you never cut in to your table you don't have to replace it. Now, I built a new one because the previos owner of my machine cut completely through his and propped up the now loose halfs with lengths of 2*4's and deck screws

The blade brake is built in to the motor on the 1511, it is a centrifigal arrangement with fly weights. At operating speed it is disengaged, when you shut down the motor as it slow the weights come in a a small friction pad inside the motor rubs on the end bell. Works well, an 8" blade stops in a couple seconds, 10" in about 6 and a dado head 15 or so. The bigger and heavier the blade the longer it takes to stop because it has more inertia.

As a beginner first read and understand those 2 books. Stick with simple cross cuts first. Do not ever have your hands in the path the carriage takes with the motor running. Do not attempt a rip cut unless you've freshened the table and totally aligned everything according to those 2 books, understand what you did and why, understand how to adjust the blade guard and kick back preventer for the cut etc.

Thank you so much for your words of wisdom. You have certainly saved me from hurting myself. My first cut on a RAS was only last week. Not sure whether you have scared me off though. Haha!

I have now purchased Mr Sawdust and John Eakes and joined Delphi as well!

But I have to say that I am very confused about this saw.

My Bladeguard seems to be very different from yours. I have this knife arrangement on the 'handle' side and a hole with a wingnut adjuster on the post side, into which I am sure you could fit an anti kickback but,,,its on the back of the guard.

I also have some blades which are not only different in tooth number but also diameter. Maybe you could advise on the use for each?

The table appears to be a single sheet made from a 25mm tabletop. Cant wait to see what Mr Sawdust thinks of that.

Overall I have read up a lot on the net and watched all the utube videos and I think this saw is in good condition. I have cut some soft pine(cross cut only!) including some 45s and measured them with my best square and they seem perfect.

My dad ( an electronics engineer and sometime inventor) used this saw mainly to build small wooden racing dinghys and some fine cabinet making for inside the house.

The attachments he made for the spindle moulders are very clever and I hope I can work out how to use them. Now that I have worked out how to post pics in here I will be able to show you these attachments later.

Thanks in advance. I really appreciate the advice

Mick

[mdbuilder]

That guard is bizzare, dunno what to say <G>. The riving knife thing has to be some sort of add on, with the guard every other dewalt I've ever seen has you adjust it each time you rip to the particular stock thickness. The nose is lowered to just > the thickness and the antin kickback which is mounted on the end you have the knife is lowered suck that the teeth are 1/8" below the surface of the board so it feeds in but can't be pulled or kicked back.

Anyway, on the blades the one with lots of little teeth should work well for cross cuts. The one with fewer big teeth could be used for either cross or rip. Is the one with mixed teeth 6 or 8" in diameter? It looks like one outer blade from a dado set, I have one in the 6" size that came with my other dewalt. 2 blades like that + 3 chippers that go in between.

[cosmicsedso]

That guard is bizzare, dunno what to say <G>. The riving knife thing has to be some sort of add on, with the guard every other dewalt I've ever seen has you adjust it each time you rip to the particular stock thickness. The nose is lowered to just > the thickness and the antin kickback which is mounted on the end you have the knife is lowered suck that the teeth are 1/8" below the surface of the board so it feeds in but can't be pulled or kicked back.

Anyway, on the blades the one with lots of little teeth should work well for cross cuts. The one with fewer big teeth could be used for either cross or rip. Is the one with mixed teeth 6 or 8" in diameter? It looks like one outer blade from a dado set, I have one in the 6" size that came with my other dewalt. 2 blades like that + 3 chippers that go in between.

Thanks again.

Blades - The Vermont American one is 10" and the others are 12". Are we way oversize with these? The VA is very smooth and cuts cleanly. The finer toothed ‘Supa Cut’ is also nice to use. The rusty old one is hopeless and I haven’t tried that strange one yet

The guard - Thanks for not saying it’s because you live 'downunder'!

Thats the guard that came with the saw. There is no way it can be reversed so I'm pretty clueless. I doubt I will be doing any ripping in the distant future.

I included some pics of the stand. If you think this is bad, the original stand was 20cm too short to accept the saw base up until about 10 years ago when dad decided to cut and weld the frame so that the saw could sit down flat!

Any aussies out there know where spares can be obtained?

I have had a look at the guard more closely and it wouldnt be too hard to make up something to resemble a kick back device. Any chance of a close up pic of yours, especially the foot? Is stuff like this readily available in the States?

Cheers

[TimV]

Yep, I posted it over there as well. GWI I presume?

GWH actaully. I think it is one version before the GWI. Mine has all solid metal knobs and handles where the GWI has plastic ends on them. Mine also has a switch for 110 or 220v. The GWI was hard wired one way or the other. I didn't need to do anything but clean off some spilled paint on the arm and buff the vertical post. I think I need to replace the bearings because they have begun to squeal.

Tim

[mdbuilder]

Here you go cosmic. You will occassionally see anti-kickbacks on e-bay. Shown is the proper setup for ripping, nose of the guard basically touching the wood on the infeed side to prevent lifting, kickback with the tines 1/8" below the surface at rest such that when the wood passes under they trail behind and will dig in and prevent a kickback if one starts...

[wright6530]

Got er done Table built, new bearing in the motor. Really happy with how smooth it runs with the new bearings.

MD - nice work! Another Aussie learner here who is about to try and recondition a tired 1511. I like your logic on the new bearings. To a novice, my bearings seem OK but based on swarf in the grease on the roller head assembly, I think mine was used for cutting thin gauge steel.

I think replacing them would be a sensible precaution - any thoughts? Hope this isn't a dumb question, but could you also let me know where you got the bearings from and any part numbers?

P

[mdbuilder]

I'll look for the specific #'s, 6501 and 6503 for the motor from memory but I should look. It's really best just to pull it apart and take the #'s directly off what is in there and measure the ID with a caliper, any local bearing supplier down under ought to have the motor bearings I would think. I got mine from Accurate Bearings on the web, they were very cheap - less than $12 shipped.

The carriage head bearings are available from Dewalt Service net also on the web. They unfortunately are very expensive @ $25.xx PER BEARING + a rather substatial handing charge. These are an exceedingly low speed <g> and pretty low load app, best to try and salvage then first due to the expense. I salvaged 3 of my 4 and only replaced one. Salvageing consisted of getting one of those gallon can or carburator cleaner at the auto parts store, it is a very aggressive solvent with a parts basket inside the can - Gunk brand here. Drop the bearings in the basket and submerge for several days, take them out a few times and aggitate in the solution, spin a bit etc. Once the yukky stuff stops coming out let them drip dry overnight on a paper towel then repack with grease. You need a grease gun and a bearing packer. The packer is a cheap think available at the auto parts store consisting of a threaded tube in the center with a grease nipple and a cross hole or two, then two plastic cones screw on the tube. One goes on, then the bearing then the second cone is screwed on tight. Pump in the grease and it enters the center and is forced through the bearing past the shields on the way out the other side. Some say just shoot them with WD-40 or drip in some oil, that works for a while but is not permanent lubrication.

[TimV]

I got mine from Accurate Bearings on the web

The guys from OWWM swear by Accurate bearing. I've ordered from them several times. Here is a thread at the OWWM forum about using Accurate. We all use Lynn when we call. She is extremely knowledgable and takes the time to help you identify the bearing exactly. All of my bearings have been very cheap $ too. OWWM Accurate Bearing Link

Tim

[wright6530]

I'll look for the specific #'s, 6501 and 6503 for the motor from memory but I should look. It's really best just to pull it apart and take the #'s directly off what is in there and measure the ID with a caliper, any local bearing supplier down under ought to have the motor bearings I would think. I got mine from Accurate Bearings on the web, they were very cheap - less than $12 shipped.

The carriage head bearings are available from Dewalt Service net also on the web. They unfortunately are very expensive @ $25.xx PER BEARING + a rather substatial handing charge. These are an exceedingly low speed <g> and pretty low load app, best to try and salvage then first due to the expense. I salvaged 3 of my 4 and only replaced one. Salvageing consisted of getting one of those gallon can or carburator cleaner at the auto parts store, it is a very aggressive solvent with a parts basket inside the can - Gunk brand here. Drop the bearings in the basket and submerge for several days, take them out a few times and aggitate in the solution, spin a bit etc. Once the yukky stuff stops coming out let them drip dry overnight on a paper towel then repack with grease. You need a grease gun and a bearing packer. The packer is a cheap think available at the auto parts store consisting of a threaded tube in the center with a grease nipple and a cross hole or two, then two plastic cones screw on the tube. One goes on, then the bearing then the second cone is screwed on tight. Pump in the grease and it enters the center and is forced through the bearing past the shields on the way out the other side. Some say just shoot them with WD-40 or drip in some oil, that works for a while but is not permanent lubrication.

MD - Thanks in advance for the motor bearing numbers and for the tip on the carriage head bearings. I think the carriage head bearings on mine are OK (although I'll follow your suggestions for repacking them).

I'm still waiting on my Mr Sawdust manual so if I can plague you with a couple of further questions:

The previous owner had the whole carriage head and the bearing ways in the arm full of grease. I have read elsewhere that the arm bearing ways should actually be clean - is this the case?

The elevator crank on my machine doesn't work. My sense is that the column is binding in the base - is this a common problem?

[mdbuilder]

Yes absolutely, the ways should be clean. Just an occasional light wipe of WD-40 or light machine oil is OK to ward off rust but no wetness which will attract sawdust and make the movement rough.

On the column, does it work or not? You say it doesn't work yet you sense tighness at the bottom which seems to imply it moves. There are adjustments on the column base, two bolts that squeeze it tighter top and bottom, 1 set screw that prys it open if needed and a set screw or two that push the brass gib bar against the column key to eliminate arm play. All can be adjusted but before screwing them up <g>. I'd start by shooting everything with WD-40 and work things up and down to see if it frees up. That includes the column / base casting joint, all along the brass gib plate and the elevation nut which can be accessed from the bottom. That nut drives the elevation though the long acme threaded rod coming down from the top of the column / elevation crank. You might also have lots of caked on hardened grease on that threaded rod too.

[wright6530]

Yes absolutely, the ways should be clean. Just an occasional light wipe of WD-40 or light machine oil is OK to ward off rust but no wetness which will attract sawdust and make the movement rough.

On the column, does it work or not? You say it doesn't work yet you sense tighness at the bottom which seems to imply it moves. There are adjustments on the column base, two bolts that squeeze it tighter top and bottom, 1 set screw that prys it open if needed and a set screw or two that push the brass gib bar against the column key to eliminate arm play. All can be adjusted but before screwing them up <g>. I'd start by shooting everything with WD-40 and work things up and down to see if it frees up. That includes the column / base casting joint, all along the brass gib plate and the elevation nut which can be accessed from the bottom. That nut drives the elevation though the long acme threaded rod coming down from the top of the column / elevation crank. You might also have lots of caked on hardened grease on that threaded rod too.

MD - thanks for the feedback on the ways. You were spot on with the column, it just needed some gentle encouragement - I got it apart without breaking anything today. Everything except the motor is broken down now - I'm not game to pull it apart without a manual. Now the fun of finding all the missing parts and cleaning all the old ones begins. Fasteners shouldn't be too difficult - love those UNC/UNF threads!

Any ideas on a source for a new elevating crank, arm clamp assembly, rip scale, yoke bevel pointer and medallion?

Photo's attached before the strip down

Full page fax print.pdf

[mdbuilder]

MD - thanks for the feedback on the ways. You were spot on with the column, it just needed some gentle encouragement - I got it apart without breaking anything today. Everything except the motor is broken down now - I'm not game to pull it apart without a manual. Now the fun of finding all the missing parts and cleaning all the old ones begins. Fasteners shouldn't be too difficult - love those UNC/UNF threads!

Any ideas on a source for a new elevating crank, arm clamp assembly, rip scale, yoke bevel pointer and medallion?

Photo's attached before the strip down

You could try Dewalt service net but I doubt any of those parts are still available. Not sure what you can do about the elevating crank, maybe something can be welded / heli-arced on? Looks like you have the arm clamp assembly, rip scale and pointer - just clean them up! The bevel pointer is a bent piece of sheet metal with an oval hole painted red, make one. The badge is a problem. Over here I'd look for another rusty saw on craigslist for $60 with the parts you need <g>.