davestanton Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Hi guys. In short I live in Australia and have been a carpenter since 16 years old. Did my apprenticeship in a joinery shop, went on to work as a subcontractor then started a company 20 years ago building cottages in much the same way construction in North America is done. 2 x 4 frames, cladding, cut rafters to the roof and often exposed for show. I closed the company a couple of weeks back due to the massive down turn in the industry as well as personal circumstances and now am looking at setting up a joinery shop behind my garage to supplement my income. I am still a contractor but have decided no more house construction, maybe some fitout work for other contractors so need to remain mobile but looking forward I think that will diminish. I would greatly appreciate some thoughts and comments on how others would address my situation if it were them in their mid 50's. Here is what I have to work with. Most general power tools, drills, mitre saw with stand, jig saw, 9 1/4 inch circular saw, thicknesser, power plane with tungsten blades, routers, battery nail guns and bradders, a standard collection of hand tools, compressor with retractable air line, leads and a bench mounted drill press. The area I have to work in has an insulated roof about 8 feet high, rising to about 10 feet. The floor is concreted but with a slope of around 8 inches over 16 feet. The length of the area is about 40 feet. I have framed the walls but yet to line and clad so I can still get wiring etc in there. A couple of windows facing north. For the southern hemisphere this is the best orientation, you guys would probably work with windows facing south? There is an opening with a roller door about 9 feet wide into a 20 x 20 feet garage that I can use for spill over if needed, but would like to keep its use as a garage for vehicles. I can do a floor plan layout if that helps. I have been thinking about heavy machines but may end up just getting a bandsaw and some festool gear like a track saw, dust extractor, router, MFT 3 and the attachment that you can mount the track saw upside down in to use for ripping. I was definitely going to build one of Marc's torsion box assembly tables, brilliant idea. I want to keep noise and dust down to a minimum. I don't want to do all of this again in another 10 years or so. The expected life time of this shop would be about 20 years going on previous generations ages where they start to lose the plot etc. lol. So, what am I asking? Heavy or portable and also given the clean sheet, what would you place knowing what I own and what else would you suggest to work in the floor plan? Thanks in advance for the help if you have time. Note, just attached the floor plan, a bit rough but gives you an idea of the space. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Dave, I think you have the right idea. I'd center around the BS, the Festool set-ups and maybe add a jointer in there. Although, you CAN joint the face of a board with the planer. On the other hand, IF you're going to do a lot of cabinet work, instead of furniture, you may want to consider a cabinet grade TS, although, you can really get by with the Festool gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted July 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Dave, I think you have the right idea. I'd center around the BS, the Festool set-ups and maybe add a jointer in there. Although, you CAN joint the face of a board with the planer. On the other hand, IF you're going to do a lot of cabinet work, instead of furniture, you may want to consider a cabinet grade TS, although, you can really get by with the Festool gear. Thanks Vic. I was thinking of the 55mm track saw for panel work. They are available over here as a package with a 1400 track and anti kick back etc. I was also thinking about the 1400 router with the track that has the stops for shelf supports. Buy a couple of track connectors and away I go. I think the 55 plunge saw can be attached to the Festool mounting plate and inverted. By the way, what is a cabinet grade TS ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joestyles Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 By the way, what is a cabinet grade TS ? TS= Table saw. caabinet grade would be one that has a larger table with extension wings etc and has a higher Horse power than contractor grade saws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted July 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Thanks Vic. I was thinking of the 55mm track saw for panel work. They are available over here as a package with a 1400 track and anti kick back etc. I was also thinking about the 1400 router with the track that has the stops for shelf supports. Buy a couple of track connectors and away I go. I think the 55 plunge saw can be attached to the Festool mounting plate and inverted. By the way, what is a cabinet grade TS ? Oh, I guess a cabinet grade table saw? Here is a pic of the kaos at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted July 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 TS= Table saw. caabinet grade would be one that has a larger table with extension wings etc and has a higher Horse power than contractor grade saws. Thanks Joe. We may have different terminology over here. I would have called that a sliding panel saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Thanks Joe. We may have different terminology over here. I would have called that a sliding panel saw. No, Dave. A Sliding Panel saw is even a step above the cabinet saw. Here's a link to a cabinet saw. http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=Delta+Unisaw&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=3181074952917000446&sa=X&ei=1fIaTqeaB4OWsgP5rKzrDQ&ved=0CHUQ8gIwAg I have a Delta Unisaw, but much older style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted July 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 No, Dave. A Sliding Panel saw is even a step above the cabinet saw. Here's a link to a cabinet saw. http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=Delta+Unisaw&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=3181074952917000446&sa=X&ei=1fIaTqeaB4OWsgP5rKzrDQ&ved=0CHUQ8gIwAg I have a Delta Unisaw, but much older style. My mistake or ignorance. Sorry guys! They slipped one inbetween, much like Harry Potter's 9 and 3/4s platform 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted July 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Day 2 of empty out the mess. I am confidant that this will one day be a nice space for me to have a coffee, listen to talk back radio and of course, play with my toys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Day 2 of empty out the mess. I am confidant that this will one day be a nice space for me to have a coffee, listen to talk back radio and of course, play with my toys! Looks like a place with great possibilities, Dave! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted July 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Looks like a place with great possibilities, Dave! Thanks Vic. Its one of those projects that will stop and start as life gets in the way, lol. I am very happy to have like minded people to chat with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted July 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Having a rethink. I am starting to think that I could make my life a whole lot simpler if I take this shop renovation in a couple of stages. With a perfectly good 20 x 20 garage that has no call of duty other than to put my old 4 wheel drive into, the thought came to me that I could help my wallet out if I added good lighting, a few more power points, paint the floor and repaint the walls and there you go, a 400 square feet space that I have pretty quickly. Set it up with a mitre saw bench with plenty of drawers down one side and my carpentry bench at 90 degrees to it, park the vehicle in there at night time, leave it out if there is a project being assembled. My area out behind the garage that has a concrete floor, roof and unclad framed walls could slowly transform into a room that I have environmental control of, over the next couple of years. In the meantime, I can still store timber out there, park my trailers (one 8 x 5 box and one 8 x 4 mobile toolbox) out there to keep them out of the weather. The added bonus is that I have the workshop operational as I do the work to the rear of the structure. Any thoughts or suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwood Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 I think you might be on the right track with using the garage. It is there and ready so why spend more money? You can be up and running in no time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Expandable is a good approach. Just be sure to pull electric where it will make sense as a sub panel for when you're ready to seal up the new space. I'm sure there are other things that your could have ready, but that is the one off the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted July 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Southwood, I am still thinking it is the right move. Always a good thing a day after a bright idea! Vic. I do all of my own electrical work and then have my electrician come and check it over prior to activating it. I can drill holes in studs just as well as he can as well as pull cable. Electricals, wiring for speaker systems, landlines for the commander phone system, cat6 cable for data and minor plumbing are all things I will sort prior to placing any insulating material in the stud walls. That will all happen as I just sit in or walk around inside the area and try to visualize the whole completed workshop. I use this system when I am building a home for a client, helps to catch something I may have overlooked at plan stage. Tomorrow I pick up the dust respirator and the steel rolling cabinet, Wednesday will see Dave very busy pulling everything out of the garage and assembling the new cabinet. Thursday may see me cleaning walls ready for paint or fitting new light fittings. Hey Vic, I am going to use twin 36 watt fluorescent tubes with diffusers, possibly 7 in total in a 20 x 20 feet area with a ceiling height of 2.7 metres, sorry, 9 feet, walls will be white and the floor will be light grey with some benches etc sitting on top, ceiling unfinished plywood. Enough light or too much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Dave, it's really hard to say without more information. Here is a free lumen spread software I just found. I'm not actually a lighting designer, so I don't get into new design too often. I'm usually coming into a situation that is a retrofit. The one thing is 36W is a four foot T12 and I'd definitely stay away from T12s as they aren't energy efficient. I'd go with a T8/850 lamp. Just for reference, I have a 30 x 40 shop and my lighting is 4 lamp commercial fixtures spaced at ten foot intervals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted July 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Vic, that in itself is an answer. Will these tubes fit into your description, they claim to be t8 850 In your shop, that would be 3 x 2 units of 4 lamps each, 24 tubes? Seems to be about the same as me when halved, 6 twins = twelve tubes for 20 x 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Vic, that in itself is an answer. Will these tubes fit into your description, they claim to be t8 850 In your shop, that would be 3 x 2 units of 4 lamps each, 24 tubes? Seems to be about the same as me when halved, 6 twins = twelve tubes for 20 x 20. When you said 36 watts, it threw me. You must be completely on 240 volt? In the states the old T12 four foot lamps are 36 or 40 watts and the T8s are 32. As far as whether that is a quality bulb, I can't say as it doesn't give enough information. You want a lamp that is at least 85 CRI(color rendering index). In a 850 lamp the minimum initial lumens should be 3000. Then you have to pair it with a good ballast. The specs on the ballast you're looking for are power factor, at least .98 or better, total harmonic distortion of 10% or less. The lamp and ballast together should have a initial lumen output of 95/watt or better. The calculation for that is: ((Initial Lumens x Number of lamps)x Ballast Factor)/ Input watts. For a shop, I would go with either a "normal"-.87 or "high"-1.15 ballast factor. 850 denotes a 5000K T8 lamp. So an 841 is a 4100 T8 lamp. The higher K number goes whiter and further into the blue color spectrum. It increases what is know as scotopic perception. Basically what a whiter light does and constrict your pupil and therefore renders better visual acuity. If you have a local utility that has energy programs for commercial lighting, ask them to refer you to a good electrical warehouse for some decent lights. Good luck, Dave!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted July 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Hi Vic. Thank you so much for your detailed response. Yes, Everyone in Australia is on 240 volts. It seems a bit strange to hear that you guys have 240 and 110 volts available with 110 being the norm. I spoke to someone over here about this yesterday and he told me the reason for that was that Americans couldn't be trusted with 240 volts lol. As I am also in the photography game, see here , I am aware of degrees kelvin and the peculiar twist it has that the closer to 10,000 K being the hotter end of the scale, the cooler the light is....weird hey? I use 5000 k tubes in my small studio for photographing products for catalogues. I will ask my wholesaler about the different ballast you mention. I had no idea that they were a variable. As an aside, I picked up a couple of items for the shop evolving process yesterday. The rolling bench with a crazy amount of drawers ( will assemble and load it up as I strip down the gear that is already in the garage). Also the motorised dust mask for personal protection. Too many years without one but as they say, "your never to old to learn a new trick". Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Believe me, Dave. I have no idea why we use 120V. It makes wiring a big pain the ars! 12 gauge wire is unruly and when you get to 10 gauge, even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Btw, hop on google+!! I'll get you in my woodworker and photographer circles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted July 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Believe me, Dave. I have no idea why we use 120V. It makes wiring a big pain the ars! 12 gauge wire is unruly and when you get to 10 gauge, even worse. There is another difference I wasn't aware of. 10 or 12 gauge wire? We use the metric system. For light circuits we use 1 mm twin and earth and for power to GPO's (general power outlets) we use 2.5mm twin and earth/ Dead easy and the wire insulation is much better these days than the old days. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted July 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Installed 6 twin 36 watt fluorescent tube fixtures today, all diffused. I fitted 5000k tubes instead of the standard 4000k tubes. The fixtures are 8 feet apart in two rows. I connect in the morning, too tired tonight. Getting closer to actually moving machines in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted July 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Here they are and also a couple of shots before and after mess and 2 lights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobbe Arnesson Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Good lights make mess go away! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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