ChetlovesMer Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Okay Marc, There's a chance I'm an idiot, but to me the one thing I don't like about the look of the split-top roubo is that there is only a dovetail on one end of the bench. Okay, maybe I'm OCD, but if both ends of the bench were "finished" with a dovetailed endcap would that create any problems? Okay, obviously it is more work. But I'm thinking more in terms of wood movement. I think it would look cooler. I'm not saying I'm going to do for sure, mind you. I do have plenty of work. But if I wanted to it… other than aesthetics would it serve any purpose? Would it be detrimental in any way? Again, I realize I’m probably a freak with my OCD, but I’m hoping this is the last bench I ever build and if it is I would sure like it to look “finished” on both ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Well, if you're doing this for OCD reasons, then you better carve out some extra time to do the two end caps for the rear slab too! I see absolutely no reason you couldn't add a cap to every end if you wanted and I don't see any negative repercussions. Just more work is all. And i suppose one could argue that it will help keep the slab flat over time like a breadboard end. But im not sure how much of a difference it will truly make in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted December 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Thanks Marc, Like I said, I'm not sure I'm going to do it, but I already thought of end caps for the rear slab as well. Obviously it will take a ton more time, which is a really rare commodity for me right now. But my OCD thinks the symmetry would be cool looking. I do, however, appreciate you getting back to me. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndremG Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I'm with you, Chet. The same thing (that the bench would look much more complete with a second dovetail end). My problem is that my OCD is offset by my laziness, so my bench will probably always nag me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I have a similar OCD issue as you guys. But for some reason, this one doesn't bother me. I love symmetry, but when something already has non-symmetrical aspects, suddenly the need for symmetry is broken. By virtue of having two very different vises on each end, the bench clearly has a distinct left and a distinct right side. So this is one symmetry issue that doesn't hit my OCD button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marode Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Sorry to bring this up again, but I was wondering if there is any argument against having an endcap which is going from front to back on both sides of the bench? Something like that: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 One advantage of the split-top design is the ability to slip clamps, etc in-between the slabs. You can certainly have a cap on each end, but would leave the gap open between the slabs if you actually execute a dual-slab bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barron Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 One other thing to consider is where your bench will be in the shop. If one side is up against a wall, you are not going to see that side very often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMarshall Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Sorry to bring this up again, but I was wondering if there is any argument against having an endcap which is going from front to back on both sides of the bench? Something like that: With an endcap that spans the two halves of the top, you will want to think about seasonal wood movement. The two top slabs will want to expand and contract with moisture changes during the year. With the endcap(s) grain running the other way they will not expand or contract much, if at all. As long as you allow for this you shouldn't have a problem. There are plenty of benches out there with a solid 24" deep top and an endcap, so don't let it stop you. It's the same thing with the short endcap in the original design, but there is less expansion with a 11" slab than with a 24" deep top. The original design has a slotted bolt hole in the endcap, so that the front slab can expand and move inside the endcap. The mortise in the endcap is also a little loose front-to-back to allow the large tenon to expand inside the endcap. Here is my recommendation: Anchor the endcap to the slab at the front and the back. Really, the dovetails already do this anyway but assuming you bolt the endcap on with two bolts make the hole closest to the dovetails just a simple round hole. Then make the other hole toward the middle of the bench slotted. Don't use glue on the endcap so it can move around seasonally. The top slabs will expand and contract toward the middle of the bench, so the gap for the split top will not always be the same size during the year. It might change by up to 1/4" or so, depending on the species of wood you are using. You might have to adjust the width of the center planing stop to keep it from binding, but that's no big deal. The original single short endcap was designed that way because it's the minimum needed functionally. But there's no reason why you can't put a full endcap at each end for aesthetic reasons, as long as you allow for wood movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marode Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Wow, this was my first post, and I am impressed by the responses. Thank you guys for your suggestions. @hhh I plan to have the gap wide enough for the jaws of the clamps, so they can be inserted in the middle. @Barron: I like the look of the big dovetails, and symmetry :-) @Aaron: Good point. I will do, as you suggested. I just took the endcap option 1 and flipped it to the other sides. I will remove the slot on the inner holes. This should allow for wood movement and it should be possible to disassemble the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allencrane Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Okay Marc, There's a chance I'm an idiot, but to me the one thing I don't like about the look of the split-top roubo is that there is only a dovetail on one end of the bench. Okay, maybe I'm OCD, but if both ends of the bench were "finished" with a dovetailed endcap would that create any problems? Okay, obviously it is more work. But I'm thinking more in terms of wood movement. I think it would look cooler. I'm not saying I'm going to do for sure, mind you. I do have plenty of work. But if I wanted to it… other than aesthetics would it serve any purpose? Would it be detrimental in any way? Again, I realize I’m probably a freak with my OCD, but I’m hoping this is the last bench I ever build and if it is I would sure like it to look “finished” on both ends. Chet, I actually went a little rogue and built my workbench with a solid slab top and two full-width end caps with dovetail ends. For me, it makes the bench look more massive, symmetrical, and finished (not to mention I would have had a wicked time minding the high tolerances of the gap stop!), and perhaps does add some additional stability with the end caps doubling as breadboards. There is a 1 1/4" x 1 1/4" mortise and tenon on the other side of the dovetail that runs the width of the bench on both ends. I actually had an email exchange with Chris Schwarz on the topic, who pointed me to other workbench designs that use the double end cap, but he also didn't want to guarantee that it would prevent wood movement. "Wood will do what wood will do" he said. That's fine, but I really like the look, especially when I'm using a harder wood on the end caps (mesquite, in my case). Honestly, I just couldn't get over the fact that this is an heirloom-quality build and I just didn't like the look of end grain on a piece that I'm so darn proud of, period. There, I said it. Don't get me wrong - this isn't furniture for me - I'm beating on it daily. The only thing that the left end cap does not have that the tail vise end cap does is the additional lag bolts. For the tail vise end cap, I used 4 lag bolts, 2 for the strength required for the vise and the other 2 to make it look more balanced as well for the remaining length of the end cap. Must have been my OCD kicking in there too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woollymonster Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Chet, I actually went a little rogue and built my workbench with a solid slab top and two full-width end caps with dovetail ends. For me, it makes the bench look more massive, symmetrical, and finished (not to mention I would have had a wicked time minding the high tolerances of the gap stop!), and perhaps does add some additional stability with the end caps doubling as breadboards. There is a 1 1/4" x 1 1/4" mortise and tenon on the other side of the dovetail that runs the width of the bench on both ends. I actually had an email exchange with Chris Schwarz on the topic, who pointed me to other workbench designs that use the double end cap, but he also didn't want to guarantee that it would prevent wood movement. "Wood will do what wood will do" he said. That's fine, but I really like the look, especially when I'm using a harder wood on the end caps (mesquite, in my case). Honestly, I just couldn't get over the fact that this is an heirloom-quality build and I just didn't like the look of end grain on a piece that I'm so darn proud of, period. There, I said it. Don't get me wrong - this isn't furniture for me - I'm beating on it daily. The only thing that the left end cap does not have that the tail vise end cap does is the additional lag bolts. For the tail vise end cap, I used 4 lag bolts, 2 for the strength required for the vise and the other 2 to make it look more balanced as well for the remaining length of the end cap. Must have been my OCD kicking in there too... SAAAWEET!!! That is the nicest looking bench that I have ever seen. And I am sure that it is just as functional. I am leaning toward this solid top design but I just started my build last week. I will most likely be using Hovarter leg and wagon vise hardware which will require some mods as well. The Hovarter wagon vise runs in a 3/4" slot which I believe is narrower than the planned dog hole strip. I don't have the plans in front of me at the moment. That vise also has a 10 1/2" throw so the dog holes can be spaced further apart. Should be easy to adapt. Same for the leg vise. Can I ask how you jointed and planed the single slab? Where you able to get it to a belt sander, hand planes, etc? Congrats, Woolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 SAAAWEET!!! That is the nicest looking bench that I have ever seen. And I am sure that it is just as functional. I am leaning toward this solid top design but I just started my build last week. I will most likely be using Hovarter leg and wagon vise hardware which will require some mods as well. The Hovarter wagon vise runs in a 3/4" slot which I believe is narrower than the planned dog hole strip. I don't have the plans in front of me at the moment. That vise also has a 10 1/2" throw so the dog holes can be spaced further apart. Should be easy to adapt. Same for the leg vise. Can I ask how you jointed and planed the single slab? Where you able to get it to a belt sander, hand planes, etc? Congrats, Woolly Woolly, If you have question on the vise installation, contact Erik Gilling @bltww on Twitter. He's almost done with his bench. My build was chronicled on my blog, if you are interested. I actually built ahead of the Guild, so my sequences are necessarily the same. Luckily, Aaron Marshall's excellent SketchUp skills produced a drawing that made it fairly easy for me to figure things out. Marc was also there when I ran into any road blocks. Vic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allencrane Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 SAAAWEET!!! That is the nicest looking bench that I have ever seen. And I am sure that it is just as functional. I am leaning toward this solid top design but I just started my build last week. I will most likely be using Hovarter leg and wagon vise hardware which will require some mods as well. The Hovarter wagon vise runs in a 3/4" slot which I believe is narrower than the planned dog hole strip. I don't have the plans in front of me at the moment. That vise also has a 10 1/2" throw so the dog holes can be spaced further apart. Should be easy to adapt. Same for the leg vise. Can I ask how you jointed and planed the single slab? Where you able to get it to a belt sander, hand planes, etc? Congrats, Woolly Thanks Wooly! First of all, I am honored to hear your compliment. Second, I must defer to Marc, Aaron, and others such as Vic who gave me the confidence to pursue this feat, though apparently not enough to do a split top :-). I essentially used the same technique as the video, albeit making each of the 2 slabs a bit wider to compensate for the gap. In doing so, I only had one final face to glue up, and I could take my time to square each of the two faces to do so. I also think I'm the only one yet to admit that I did take it down to my friend's cabinet shop to run it through his belt sander - the main reason being that the bench was slightly thinner (at 3 7/8") than spec, so I wanted to take off as little as possible, and my planing skills are simply not there yet. After a few passes, the finished dimension is 3 5/8" thick, and the mesquite burl is really beautiful - even the cabinet guys seemed to be enjoying heaving this slab around! All that said, follow Marc's video sequence - I highly recommend doing so you don't get out ahead of yourself and into a corner. Aaron has also thought of darn near everthing as it comes to the plans, so even if you deviate as I did, the plans are so true that you can compensate with simple math. And then there are the others in the guild that inspire us - my bench looks the way it does partly because I took Vic's art deco details from his leg vise and deadman and incorporated it into mine. Do the same and make it your own. And mind the forum too, espacially the "cock-ups" (mistakes) that others made, hopefully you can avoid them! See you on the other side! Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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