Do I have to use a dust collector with a SawStop?

[BoWingo]

So I understand that this is probably a silly question and I'll probably get chastised for it, but hear me out. I have my reasons.

My Delta table saw from the 80's finally went out on me the other day and my wife suggested that I replace it with a SawStop. After doing some research, I'm looking at getting a SawStop Contractor Saw soon, and I'm wondering if a dust collector is a necessity with this table saw. I don't own a DC (ShopVac doesn't count), and I have only one 110V circuit in my garage. If I go with the SawStop, will I need to budget in the cost of a dust collector plus the cost of adding another circuit to the garage (hopefully not requiring a service upgrade to the house)? Could I get by with something like the Dust Right Wall Mount unit or are we talking more like a Jet DC-1100?

This isn't exactly how I expected this to go down at all. I my mind, I figured I'd upgrade the electrical in the garage, add the dust collector, then replace the still-working Delta with a 3HP PCS all spaced over a period of about 3 years. Unfortunately, plans change.

[Jfitz]

Not a silly question at all. Frankly, you need to look at both the SS and DC as being key safety features (let's leave the typical SS debates out of this one). Since your old saw has died, that's probably the more important item to replace.

Although not ideal, any DC capability is better then none so don't wrinkle your nose at you shop vac. The blade guard dust collection on the SS works very well with just a shop vac. Don't expect it to get all the sawdust from underneath but maybe it will at least keep the finer stuff from spraying all over the top of the saw.

How do you normally handle the dust issue? Do you wear a respirator?

[BoWingo]

How do you normally handle the dust issue? Do you wear a respirator?

I usually handle the dust issue by wearing a respirator during and vacuuming up all the dust with the shop vac after the fact. It's quite the chore, though, as everything (think drills, screwdrivers, workbench, radio, etc.) gets a fine layer of dust. That means that my garage tends to stay in a dust covered state most of the time.

That's why my ideal flow would have been to upgrade the power (so that I could even consider running a DC of some sort at the same time as the TS), then a DC before looking into upgrading the TS. That would have spread out the cost for me a bit and not put me in the sticker shock that I'm looking at now.

The SawStop Contractor Saw specs call for 14 amps. I'm pretty sure that means that I won't be running any other motorized items on the same circuit, so even running a shop vac at the same time will require some amount of electrical upgrade.

[Beechwood Chip]

I've used my Sawstop contractor saw when I forgot to turn on my DC. No problems, other than having to sweep up the dust. You might have to vacuum out the inside of the saw periodically. You could use a shop vac with an adapter. It wouldn't collect as much dust as a DC would, but would get some.

[Chris H]

If you are wearing a respirator, I would think the DC is more of a convenience than a neccesity. I definatley think you should have the DC on your short list but I agree, the saw would have to come first. No table saw is a big problem!

As for the power consumption, keep in mind that most of the required amps are at peak usage. The saw and the DC are likely to use more amps when they are cranking up, so you may be able to get away with starting your DC/Shop Vac and letting it idle for 10-20 secs before firing up the saw. Another solution may be to swap out the breaker. I don't know how comfortable you are with electrical, but swapping a 15 amp with a 20 is a very simple, and relatively inexpensive process if you and your box can handle it. It should only take 15-20 minutes to do, and cost ~$15-$25 depending on the breakers you use. If you aren't comfortable though, don't risk it. Electrical is one of those things that can be very safe if you know what you are doing, but very dangerous if you don't.

[Jfitz]

I would not recommend replacing a 15A breaker with a 20A breaker unless you knew the wire to the outlet was the proper size for 20A.

Shop vacs run just fine on extension cords, so is an option to run an extension from another outlet on a different circuit?

[Eric.]

I'm of the "think long-term" philosophy. If you plan to continue woodworking and growing your shop, and you don't plan to move in the near future, I'd spend the money to expand your circuits. And I'd include 220 in that expansion. My days of chasing my tail and doing things two, three, four times to ultimately end up where I should have started off, are over. Sometimes it requires patience (something I lack entirely), but you end up better off in the long-run with the shop you dream about, instead of a shop that's full of compromises and "good enough" at best.

[BoWingo]

Thanks for the advice so far, everyone. I'm thinking I'll probably go with the plan of upgrading garage power and adding a DC in the near future, but not necessarily right away. When we get there, 220V will definitely be a part of that upgrade.

[ChetlovesMer]

I was in your exact situation a long time ago.

Here's what I can tell you.

1 - Hanging a bag under your contractor saw will catch the Lion's share of the dust. If you use that and your shop vac in the blade gard of the SawStop you will be surprised at how little dust will escape.

2 - Do not (I repeat DO NOT) replace your 15 amp breaker with a 20 amp breaker! That is a recipe for a fire. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but if you overload the existing wiring, you will have a fire eventually. That is the purpose of the breaker, to prevent that very thing.

3 - I used to have a similar set up in my garage when I started. I actually ran a drop cord out of the shop to an additional circuit outside becuase I would trip the breaker with my table saw and shop vac running at the same time.

[ChetlovesMer]

Oh one more thing: You can buy 14 Amp power strips.

With that at least you could hook up your saw and your shop vac to the power strip.

Then if you trip the power strip's breaker at least it is close enough that you don't have to walk to the basement to turn it all back on.

[PaulMarcel]

You might want to check the existing breaker; code in many places (here at least) is 20A for outdoor/garage circuits. I wouldn't use a power strip, though, since they typically have smaller gauge wire. For all that fine dust all over the garage, get a leaf blower. It's one of the most used tools in my shop

[BoWingo]

2 - Do not (I repeat DO NOT) replace your 15 amp breaker with a 20 amp breaker! That is a recipe for a fire. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but if you overload the existing wiring, you will have a fire eventually. That is the purpose of the breaker, to prevent that very thing.

And that fire will be your fault and insurance most likely won't pay for your house if they find out.

That's a good idea about hanging a bag under the saw. Is the dust collector blade guard included or is that a SawStop accessory?

[justsomeguy]

In sort, yes you really do need dust collection. If you allow dust to build up inside your SawStop It can cause problems with the mechanism. It will still save your fingers, but you may have trouble getting it to complete the startup test if there is alot of sawdust on the brake mechanism area. If you set off the brake, excess sawdust inside the saw may make it difficult to reset. Both problems are fixed by cleaning out the sawdust.

[ChetlovesMer]

You might want to check the existing breaker; code in many places (here at least) is 20A for outdoor/garage circuits. I wouldn't use a power strip, though, since they typically have smaller gauge wire. For all that fine dust all over the garage, get a leaf blower. It's one of the most used tools in my shop

Paul-Marcel,

After reading your post I had to go out and double check. I dug up the Power-strip I had used years ago. And it doesn't have a 14 amp breaker it has a 19 amp breaker. It is designed for use in a garage. The idea being tripping the breaker on the strip means you can shut your stuff off, and reset the breaker. Basically it keeps you from having to go into the house and reset the breaker. Saves a trip basically.

Seeing now that its 19 Amps, makes me think you are probably right and old my garage must of had a 20 amp circuit. The problem was it only had ONE 20 amp circuit. Thus my drop cord out the door to another circuit on the other side of the house.

Today my shop has (2) 115v 15amp circuits, (4) 115v 20amp circuits, and (3) 220v 40amp circuits. Since I'm the only one working in it, I never even think about these issues anymore. But I do remember those days when starting the saw and the shop vac at the same time meant turing off the radio. God forbid if I forgot I was charging a NiCad battery at the same time! Ah... the memories.

Years ago, Wood Magazine put out an article on wiring a shop. I remember it helped me a ton in desiging my first shop. If I can dig up that article I'll post from what issue it came.

[mattvan]

For what it's worth, I think this was already addressed in the previous replies, a shop vac is not ideal...but it could help at the least.

Not too long ago I forgot to reattach the DC hose to my SawStop and didn't notice until I was done cutting. There was a little bit more sawdust in the air, but nothing outrageous. And when I walked around the back to reattach the hose...it had shot a stream of dust and chips out the back at least 4ft in a line. It looked like it had been deliberately sprayed there.

Inside the cabinet, not much dust had accumulated. The dust shroud worked amazing.

Just to be transparent about my relationship with SawStop they are a Sponsor of my show...but I'd tell this story even if they weren't.

[ChetlovesMer]

In sort, yes you really do need dust collection. If you allow dust to build up inside your SawStop It can cause problems with the mechanism. It will still save your fingers, but you may have trouble getting it to complete the startup test if there is alot of sawdust on the brake mechanism area. If you set off the brake, excess sawdust inside the saw may make it difficult to reset. Both problems are fixed by cleaning out the sawdust.

Having been a fairly early adopter of the SawStop I feel qualified to comment on this as well. I've had my SawStop for over 7 years now, and had it fire once, and at the same time I have had woefully undersized dust collection. (Unitl this week. I just received my Clear Vue, I'm in the process of setting it up.) I can tell you for sure saw-dust will not stop the safety mechanism from working, and will have no affect on replacing the brake/blade if it does fire. I have also not experienced any issues with sawdust causing the saw to struggle to complete the start-up test. But to your point, replacing anything; the blade, the brake, switching to a dado, etc... is always easier and nicer if there is less sawdust in the way. So, I agree with you that cleaning out the sawdust is a good idea.

[ChetlovesMer]

For what it's worth, I think this was already addressed in the previous replies, a shop vac is not ideal...but it could help at the least.

Not too long ago I forgot to reattach the DC hose to my SawStop and didn't notice until I was done cutting. There was a little bit more sawdust in the air, but nothing outrageous. And when I walked around the back to reattach the hose...it had shot a stream of dust and chips out the back at least 4ft in a line. It looked like it had been deliberately sprayed there.

Inside the cabinet, not much dust had accumulated. The dust shroud worked amazing.

Just to be transparent about my relationship with SawStop they are a Sponsor of my show...but I'd tell this story even if they weren't.

Matt, SawStop doesn't sponsor me in the least. But I can vouch for the accuracy of your statement having had very similar experiences. Oh wait, SawStop did give me a free ballcap when I came to their both at a recent local show... does that count as sponsoring?

[PaulMarcel]

Okay, your power strip is more like one for a garage. Sorry, was assuming one of the crappy ones used inside the house. Still worth checking the power strip is rated for high enough current.

[KMoura]

I have used my Sawstop without the dust collector on and/or hooked up and I have experienced a little difficulty lowering the blade all the way down and adjusting the brake cartridge in relation to the blade.

I have a 3 HP Sawstop Cabinet Saw and I use it with an 1 1/2 HP Delta Dust Collector, and my saw has the I-Tools transmitter ( there is a name for it, but I cannot remember it) and my dust collector has the I-Tools switch, so whenever I use the saw the dust collector comes on automatically and when I turn the saw off the collector stay's on for whatever I set it for. This system is completely remote control and works great.

[ChetlovesMer]

I have used my Sawstop without the dust collector on and/or hooked up and I have experienced a little difficulty lowering the blade all the way down and adjusting the brake cartridge in relation to the blade.

KMoura, I hope this isn't a dumb question. And I don't want to hijack BoWingo's thread, but when do you ever adjust the brake cartridge in relation to the blade? I have the Industrial Cabinet SawStop and I checked mine the day it arrived it was adjusted fine, I haven't touched it in over seven years of pretty heavy use. I've switched back and forth between probably a hundred different blades and two dado heads, again, I've never had to adjust the relation of my brake to the blade.

Also, I'm not sure about your saw but with mine the raise and lower as well as the tilt hand wheels are pneumatically assisted, and I don’t think there’s enough saw dust on Earth to stop that heavy-@$$ arbor from dropping all the way down. The arbor on my saw is infinitely heavier than any arbor I've seen on any other saw. The manufacturer's rep told me it was designed to handle a million stops... Looking at it, I believe him. As a matter of fact, the whole saw is as heavy as all get out. The saw with everything on it weighs almost 700 pounds.

Just curious, because I have had really under-sized dust collection up until now, and I've never seen anything that would cause either issue you mention.

[robjeffking]

It seems your only real option is to upgrade the shop with more circuits. I had my electrician add a seperate

service panel below my meter on the outside of my house. Where is your existing service panel located?

Even if you solve your immediate problem your gonna need dedicated circuits to expand in the future.

[BoWingo]

It seems your only real option is to upgrade the shop with more circuits. I had my electrician add a seperate

service panel below my meter on the outside of my house. Where is your existing service panel located?

Even if you solve your immediate problem your gonna need dedicated circuits to expand in the future.

The unfortunate thing is that my electrical service enters the house diagonally from my garage. The garage is in the front left of the house, the main breaker panel in the back right. In other words, the two points are the farthest they could possibly be from one another. I'm thinking it might actually be comparable, price-wise, to add a sub-panel in the garage versus running multiple new circuits all the way across the house.

I did find the schematic to my Delta saw today and learned that there's a belt buried deep inside the motor assembly (I always thought it was a direct-drive saw). If I'm able to tear the saw apart and find the replacement part that I need, I might be able to return to my original long-term pie-in-the-sky plan of 1) upgrade electrical, 2) add dust collection, 3) retire the Delta for the 3HP SawStop PCS. Now that would be awesome! We'll see.

[PaulMarcel]

Any chance there's an electric water heater or dryer outlet in the garage? I hijacked my electric water heater for a year or two.

[robjeffking]

Maybe there are soon unseen circuits in the attic not being used (like a attic light) its risky and I dont want to be the one to give you a bad suggestion that puts your family at risk consult a trained professional.

[justsomeguy]

(snip) I have also not experienced any issues with sawdust causing the saw to struggle to complete the start-up test. But to your point, replacing anything; the blade, the brake, switching to a dado, etc... is always easier and nicer if there is less sawdust in the way. So, I agree with you that cleaning out the sawdust is a good idea.

The problem I experienced was similar to the one Kmoura had. After the brake fires, you have to lower it all the way done and raise it back up to reset. When there was alot of dust inside the saw, it would not seat correctly when raised back up. After cleanup, the problem was solved. It sounds like you have an ICS? My experiences are with a PCS - perhaps Kmoura has the same. The saw and mechanisms are definitely much heavier on the ICS.