Breadbox with swing-down door

[rgdaniel]

Hey now,

I'm building a bread box to match the breadboard I recently made:

I'm basically cribbing the overall design from the garage-sale special that it will replace... the top will be random laminated strips of four species, matching the breadboard. The sides will be plain maple, with a vertical repetition of the stripes, but just a couple up the middle, the rest plain. And the door will be just plain maple (but laminated in 2-inch wide strips, because I'm using up 8/4 stock) with a small, probably turned knob.

In the "prototype" the door pivots down on what looks to be a couple of brass nails, similar to this:

http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=40385&cat=3,41306,41325

But they have a tendency to work their way out over time, and I push them back in.

Is there a better way of addressing this aspect? I like the simple elegance of the brass pins, but not if they're going to come loose. And I'm concerned that I can only find 1-inch pins, that after they go through the sides which I hope to keep at a full 3/4", they'll barely have more than a quarter-inch (less the gap) contact with the door.

Suggestions? Recommendations? Dire warnings of impending doom?

Oh, and any sources for brass in Canada, besides Lee Valley?

Cheers,

Bob.

[Lawrence Brown]

You could try small diameter brass rod, which you can find in most good hardware stores. Just drill the right sized holes in the box and the door and press in. Just make the hole a bit deeper than the rod, polish the end of the rod with fine sandpaper, and press in. If you are worried about them coming out, you could put tiny dabs of epoxy in the door holes before assembly. Just realize that you'll never get them out again.

[rgdaniel]

Thanks, that sounds reasonable... I'll look for brass rods at the HW store...

You could try small diameter brass rod, which you can find in most good hardware stores. Just drill the right sized holes in the box and the door and press in. Just make the hole a bit deeper than the rod, polish the end of the rod with fine sandpaper, and press in. If you are worried about them coming out, you could put tiny dabs of epoxy in the door holes before assembly. Just realize that you'll never get them out again.

[PaulMarcel]

Since you don't need a really long rod, you could get brass shelf pins. Usually pretty cheap, come in sizes from 1/4"-10mm (that's the range at my Rockler; Home Depot has mostly 1/4"). Most have bevels on the ends so in your case you'd need to cut the bevel off one side, which is pretty easy using a 1/4" hole in a scrap of wood to hold it followed by a hacksaw with volumous cursing.

[Lawrence Brown]

So last night I was thinking more about your situation and unfortunately, I don't think my solution is going to work.

If you epoxy the rods into the door like I suggested, then they are going to have to rotate freely in the holes in the case. That means you would have to make them a little oversized, which is probably not going to give you the look you want. What you actually want is the holes in the door a little oversized, which brings us back to installing the rods in the case so that they don't move. The problem is then getting epoxy into the case holes without any of it getting into the door because if that happens, the door won't open.

The only solutions I see at this time are to go the old route, which would be to make the holes in the case slightly undersized and press the rods in, or you could epoxy them in before gluing up the frame, but that may be more of a hassle than you want to deal with.

Actually, a third way would be to cut a slot in the back of the door on each side. The slot would be where the holes are now. You would glue the case together with the rods installed permanently into the case. Then you would place the door onto the rods and attach a plate on each side of the back of the door that covered the slots to keep the rods in. This is how some furniture is done, but is also the most complicated. It does, however, allow you to take the door off again without having to disturb the rods or having to dismantle the entire thing.

As far as the size of the rods goes, I was thinking you wanted something very small in diameter, like about 1/8th to 1/16th in size since you mentioned brad nails being used now. A lot of harware stores have a section for hobbyists that carry small pieces of aluminum and brass sheet and aluminum and brass rod (it may be labeled wire, but it's the same thing). The advantage to this is you can cut the pieces to whatever length you need to fit the project.

If you want larger, you could investigate replacement hinges for things like the glass doors in home entertainment units. Larger hardware stores and I think the big box stores would carry those, but I was thinking they would be too large for what you need.

Hope that helps.

[rgdaniel]

Since you don't need a really long rod, you could get brass shelf pins. Usually pretty cheap, come in sizes from 1/4"-10mm (that's the range at my Rockler; Home Depot has mostly 1/4"). Most have bevels on the ends so in your case you'd need to cut the bevel off one side, which is pretty easy using a 1/4" hole in a scrap of wood to hold it followed by a hacksaw with volumous cursing.

Thanks for that! I'm guessing you mean for these to be installed from the inside, not via a through-hole from the outside? That's interesting, it would make the system invisible from the outside, I like that about it... sounds a bit challenging to install though, to get it aligned just right... must ponder my chances...

[rgdaniel]

So last night I was thinking more about your situation and unfortunately, I don't think my solution is going to work.

If you epoxy the rods into the door like I suggested, then they are going to have to rotate freely in the holes in the case. That means you would have to make them a little oversized, which is probably not going to give you the look you want. What you actually want is the holes in the door a little oversized, which brings us back to installing the rods in the case so that they don't move. The problem is then getting epoxy into the case holes without any of it getting into the door because if that happens, the door won't open.

The only solutions I see at this time are to go the old route, which would be to make the holes in the case slightly undersized and press the rods in, or you could epoxy them in before gluing up the frame, but that may be more of a hassle than you want to deal with.

Actually, a third way would be to cut a slot in the back of the door on each side. The slot would be where the holes are now. You would glue the case together with the rods installed permanently into the case. Then you would place the door onto the rods and attach a plate on each side of the back of the door that covered the slots to keep the rods in. This is how some furniture is done, but is also the most complicated. It does, however, allow you to take the door off again without having to disturb the rods or having to dismantle the entire thing.

As far as the size of the rods goes, I was thinking you wanted something very small in diameter, like about 1/8th to 1/16th in size since you mentioned brad nails being used now. A lot of harware stores have a section for hobbyists that carry small pieces of aluminum and brass sheet and aluminum and brass rod (it may be labeled wire, but it's the same thing). The advantage to this is you can cut the pieces to whatever length you need to fit the project.

If you want larger, you could investigate replacement hinges for things like the glass doors in home entertainment units. Larger hardware stores and I think the big box stores would carry those, but I was thinking they would be too large for what you need.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for giving this so much thought! I thought your first idea was fine, in that it more or less described the current situation... as I'm pondering now, I think I might approach it like this: use the 1" brass Escutcheon Pins from Lee Valley, and countersink for the heads just slightly, enough to allow a small bead of epoxy right under the head, just to keep it from wandering out of the hole... then if this fails, I can still enlarge the holes slightly and go with brass rod... to install, I could just clamp everything in its exact location, drill a small pilot hole through the side and into the door, and gently hammer the pin into place... does that sound like a plan for someone of my, let's say, emerging skills?

[Lawrence Brown]

That sounds great. The added bit of brass on the outside will spice it up a bit and then you can hide whatever you want underneath it.

[rgdaniel]

So what's going through my mind now is how to attach the top... I think the prototype is just finish-nailed and painted, can't really tell... I'm not painting, so I'm thinking dowels?

[Lawrence Brown]

Sounds like a good option. They are simple and will be hidden.