Lee Bussy Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 I would like to force age some wood and I have seen pics and discussion online that leads me to believe that I want to use ferrous sulfate instead of ferrous acetate. I looked around to find some and about the only stuff I can find is lawn care (~35%), iron sulfate for oral ingestion (~25%) and iron sulfate liquid for oral ingestion (~19%.) Has anyone sourced this differently? I'd think the filler in iron tablets would just be starch, sugar, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Seems you could make your own from steel wool and sulfuric acid. Howto I seem to recall sulfuric acid being sold at pool supply houses (or was that muriatic?). Maybe a battery rebuilder is a better source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Seems you could make your own from steel wool and sulfuric acid.HowtoI seem to recall sulfuric acid being sold at pool supply houses (or was that muriatic?). Maybe a battery rebuilder is a better source.Definitely muriatic. I don't think sulfuric acid is advisable for mere mortals, it's a dangerous substance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 You can buy sulphuric or formic over the internet quite readily. Make sure to follow all precautions though, either acid is a bad day waiting to happen. Don't substitute hydrochloric or muriatic for the sulphuric or formic. The two do not behave the same chemically. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted November 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Hrm .. or I can buy it on Amazon of course. Ferrous Sulfate Heptahydrate - FeSO4*7H2O - 20% Iron - Very Soluble - 1 Pound - $7.99 and Prime ShippingI don't know why I didn't look there first. Sheesh! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted November 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Okay, I ordered the Ferrous Sulfate. I'll share my findings when done. I guess I'll compare the sulfate to the acetate as long as I'm dinking with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 What species are you working with? I know the iron acetate reaction varies widely with different species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted November 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 What species are you working with? I know the iron acetate reaction varies widely with different species.Well this one is a small project my wife wants done .. pictures on wood. The medium will likely be clear pine. I don't expect that to be very high in tannins, so I will likely do a tea wash first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Lee, I have done the iron acetate thing on pine a few times. It takes 2 or three days after application (unsealed, I guess it is an oxydizing reaction), but pine will turn a rich medium brown. I never used the tea wash trick. I'm expecting the iron sulfate will produce a more bleached / driftwood appearance. Please share your results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted November 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 I'd read that the acetate does "brown" pine - where the sulfate grays it. We'll see. I guess I can try one of each, and with a pre tea-wash and without (4 samples). I think that might be interesting. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lee Bussy Posted December 13, 2015 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) Okay guys ... here's my results on some cheap pine board. I used three different solutions, two ways each (six tests):4-0 steel wool soaked in Distilled Wine Vinegar for a week (iron acetate)A Tea Wash followed by 4-0 steel wool soaked in Distilled Wine Vinegar for a week (iron acetate + tannin)4-0 steel wool soaked in Apple Cider Vinegar for a week (iron acetate)A Tea Wash followed by 4-0 steel wool soaked in Apple Cider Vinegar for a week (iron acetate + tannin)Iron sulfate (dietary supplement) in distilled water (iron sulfate)A Tea Wash followed by Iron sulfate (dietary supplement) in distilled water (iron sulfate + tannin)The iron sulfate solution was 1/2 tsp powder in a pint of distilled water. I suspect the solution is a little less potent than the acetates so more testing is in order. I will probably try for a 5% solution next time to mimic the strength of the vinegar base solution. The tea was a couple bags boiled in a pint of tap water (if I had thought of it I would have used distilled instead) for about 4-5 mins. Future tests for repeatable results may include buying some tannic acid and making a known strength solution. Tannic acid is tannin - not all tannin is tannic acid.With the whole steel wool in vinegar solution thing .. what we are doing is dissolving iron and allowing it to react with the acid in the vinegar to make a metal + acid compound - hence iron acetate (acetic acid.) What you get is a solution plus some sludge from plain old rust. Vinegar is 95% water or so, so when all of the acid reacts it leaves some iron and water sitting there with nothing to do but make rust (iron oxide.) If I was sincerely looking for a repeatable product I would get some glacial (without water) acetic acid and react it with a measured amount of iron, then dissolve that back in distilled water at a known rate.DANGER: When this reaction is taking place, hydrogen gas is liberated. DO NOT cap the container you are using. I did not note enough bubbling to be a fire hazard, but a capped jar will generate enough to shatter.Another thing to note: if you stuff some steel will in a jar and then fill it to the top with vinegar, it will overflow. The steel wool holds onto a bit of the gas displacing the vinegar. Leave about an inch in a pint jar for that expansion.After sitting for a week, the acetate solution was run through a coffee filter to get most of the "mung" out.All solutions were blotted on a little heavy and allowed to soak in a bit. I left the tea damp and went ahead and used the iron solution as soon as the surface was free of any standing water.Overall, Iron Acetate (from vinegar + steel wool) leaves a "warmer" color. It's tough to see but especially on the Distilled + tea you can see a golden shadow in the grain. Any tea (adding tannin) adds silver tones. The apple cider vinegar solution produced a warmer color than the distilled white vinegar. I suspect perhaps there's malic acid in it which gives that effect.The iron sulfate left a very pretty silver sheen when used alone, and a darker silver when put over tea. This is a more sun-distressed look reminiscent of driftwood. That's the one I will be using for my project. The apple cider with no tea is a very pretty stain that might be nice as a regular finish.Hopefully this helps someone. Edited December 13, 2015 by Lee Bussy 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 Thanks for sharing Lee. Interesting results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 Thanks, Lee! Very clearly stated experiment. I appreciate this level of detail, and find it very helpful. To me, it appears that the samples without the tea wash have an even, blotch-free color, whereas the tea wash seems to deepen the grain contrast. It also appears to cause some streaking, but I suspect that may be a result of applying the solutions while the tea was still wet. In any case, this looks better than pigment stains usually do on pine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted December 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 This was a raw board from the scrap pile - no sanding. There is some blotching but some is due to splashing one solution into another area. There's also some sap that's come out of the board, and one area looks as if I may have gotten some silicone spray on it.As it drys it looks nicer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewyo Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 Cool stuff Lee.I wonder how light fast the samples (especially the tea) would be. Is the final color of the samples with tea applied due to staining by the tea or is it from a chemical change caused by the tannin? I suggest ripping the board in half and then putting half out in the sun and half in a dark closet. Vegetable dyes are notoriously fugitive. Paint a picture with pomegranate juice and it will be like alizarin crimson. Apply sunlight and you will soon have brown, somewhat like the color change of padauk or poplar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted December 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 Well remember this is to distress wood so the more it weathers and is out in the sunlight, the more natural patina is gained even if the false patina goes away. This is not a dye so much as a chemical reaction. The tea makes no color change and it takes about 10-20 seconds before you see any change when you put one of the iron compounds on the wood. It's like it "develops."If I think about it I'll rip it and put it out in the weather. I suspect the winter sun won't do much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Tom Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 Well done Lee. Great foundation work for a lot of us. I work with a local mill here in MT that produces circular saw cut rough lumber from Douglas fir which ages to a pleasant pinkish color in about a year. Some folks are asking for a barn wood finish I have a few year on this old clock and living in montana I have seen quite a few barns so I have no idea what they have in mind for “barn wood” . This thread has helped a great deal. I’m pretty good at woodworking but not much of a chemist so this helped a bunch. For me the Ferrous acetate gives the Douglas fir a warm brown after 24 hours I ll call this barn wood and see we’re it goes. Ferrous Sulphate does not seem to do much as you indicated. Thank for the help Forester Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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