mds2 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 So, I am in a bit of a pickle. I was asked to make a headboard for my sister-in-law and I thought that she wanted it to be black. I am using poplar to build it and after talking to the guys at my local woodworking store they directed me to use xylene based wood stain on it. I tracked some down here in town and tested it on a couple pieces. Black as black can be, no probs. So now that I have it 80% constructed she tells me she wants it to match her dresser, which is mahogany. Wonderful. Having known that ahead of time I would have probably just used mahogony or sapele. But it is what it is, no worries. I have a poplar headboard that I need to make a deep rich reddish brown. I know there are lots of problems with blotching with poplar. I want to make it look the best I can, obviously. I am not all concerned with the appearance differences in wood grain between the two species, I just want the color to look right. Through my little bit a research it looks like I need to use a sanding sealer, but after that I am kind of lost. A few places I read recommended water based stain, but I was hoping to get insight from the members here. What do I need to do? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Are you spraying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds2 Posted March 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 No, I have no spray equipment. The best I could do is go pick up a HF sprayer, its right down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Ive become fond of GF RTM which is just water based stain. With poplar I put on a coat of clear stain base. If there are alot of green streaks I tint the base a color in between the green and bare poplar color. After that dries spray with color your going for, seal with WB poly thinned and heated. Then tint the top coaat to bring the color up to where it needs to be. Put on final clears and it done. You can do the same if you get some transtint to make your equalizer color. This process is a spray only process, dont try by hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds2 Posted March 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 As an alternative, what can I do by hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 You can try WB dye to get it close, shellac seal then stain. Your going have to experiment a little. Experiment on bigger chunks of poplar so your dealing with the good and bad. The spray method above is pretty fool proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds2 Posted March 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Ok, thank you very much. Hopefully this will work out. If not, she is getting a black headboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tkf530 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Seal the surface with a finish such as shellac or wipe on some varsol. You don't need to use a sanding sealer. This'll stop the wood from blotching. Then just apply the stain. Once that's dry brush on your finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds2 Posted March 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 That is what I was going to use, just because I have it on hand already. I think I read to mix it 5:1?? Do you think using amber shellac would be more beneficial than blonde? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Seal the surface with a finish such as shellac or wipe on some varsol. You don't need to use a sanding sealer. This'll stop the wood from blotching. Then just apply the stain. Once that's dry brush on your finish. Sounds contradictory. Shellac would act as a sanding sealer. Thinned shellac is sanding sealer. Varsol is paint thinner? Shellac will also block the stain making it difficult to get the dark mahogany color but will help with blotching. A gel stain would sit on top and make it easier but its not easy to get a good dark color on poplar by hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Hit the raw wood with a mixture of 50/50 water and General Finishes High performance, may have to do this 2 times, test on scraps with your dye for blotching.. Dye the wood with either General Finishes Vintage Cherry (for brown tone) or Cinnamon (for red tone) Then stain with General Finishes water-based Black Cherry Then Seal the stain with a coat of General Finishes High Performance straight from the can. Then go back over glazing with the Black Cherry Stain. Test on scraps first, however, spraying the dye is the preferred method over large surfaces such as yours. Most of all make sure everything has completely dried between each step. -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatworks Today Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 I dont know if you've seenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6X-0Y9xMY0. If not, might be of some help (or not) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rozaieski Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Lockwood red mahogany water based dye followed by garnet shellac. If it needs mor protection, Arm-R-Seal over the shellac. This is poplar. http://logancabinetshoppe.com/uploads/photos/furniture/porringer_table05.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds2 Posted March 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 I dont know if you've seenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6X-0Y9xMY0. If not, might be of some help (or not) While this was very informative, this looks like a hell of a lot of work. LOL. How would that process apply to poplar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatworks Today Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 It's really not much more work than any other option, actually a lot less sanding and applications of different sealers, stains, dye's, etc . Kind of a 1 step process prior to topcoating. If I understand correctly, what you're trying to do with your project is get a similar color finish on your poplar to match the existing mahogany? While what I was using was a stain / grain filler (with poplar the grain filling aspects aren't needed) it is a way to basically take any existing colored wood and tone it to whatever color your looking for (either straight from the can or by adding some oil based paint to the mix..) You're looking to match a mahogany "color" and these stains are already tinted for that appearance. At the end of that video there was a sample that was stained red and I went back over it with the chocolate color and it completely covered the base beneath it.. Like I said, it might be useful, or might not. Just thought I'd throw it out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds2 Posted March 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Please, dont think I was trying to be rude. I did find it helpful, I just didnt know if it would work in my case, since you were using it on sapele. And all the burlap rubbing, ugh. You are good in front of the camera, I need to check out your other videos. You did understand what I am wanting to do, and if I can do that with a single product, than that is even better! I just want to make sure I buy the right products the first time. Believe me I am considering everything anyone posts on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatworks Today Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Please, dont think I was trying to be rude. Not at all ! I don't know if I have any poplar laying around here to experiment with but I'll check. If I do I'll send some pics your way.. Out of curiosity, did any of the sample pieces I did look to be a close color match for your project? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texfire Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Lockwood red mahogany water based dye followed by garnet shellac. If it needs mor protection, Arm-R-Seal over the shellac. This is poplar. http://logancabinetshoppe.com/uploads/photos/furniture/porringer_table05.jpg Bob, that's incredible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds2 Posted March 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Not at all ! I don't know if I have any poplar laying around here to experiment with but I'll check. If I do I'll send some pics your way.. Out of curiosity, did any of the sample pieces I did look to be a close color match for your project? I'll have to go back over and look. I'm sure one of them is close enough, but I couldnt tell you which one to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds2 Posted March 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Lockwood red mahogany water based dye followed by garnet shellac. If it needs mor protection, Arm-R-Seal over the shellac. This is poplar.http://logancabinetshoppe.com/uploads/photos/furniture/porringer_table05.jpg This is pretty incredible. Just the two step process? Sprayed or wiped on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 The issue is poplar sapwood, it's terrible for blotching. Heartwood, not so much the case. -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tkf530 Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Sounds contradictory. Shellac would act as a sanding sealer. Thinned shellac is sanding sealer. Varsol is paint thinner? Shellac will also block the stain making it difficult to get the dark mahogany color but will help with blotching. A gel stain would sit on top and make it easier but its not easy to get a good dark color on poplar by hand. Shellac actually clogs the sandpaper very fast though. I just tried it today. So it's not a 'sanding sealer'. But I usually apply a 1 pound cut. lightly sand with 320 and apply the stain. Varsol = mineral spirits. This'll condition the wood. Apply the varsol and then wipe off any excess. Then you should apply the stain. I'll personally do it within minutes of wiping it off. But be careful because mineral spirits could be the solvent for your wiping stain which'll dilute the color. Gel stain does a much better job though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rozaieski Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 This is pretty incredible. Just the two step process? Sprayed or wiped on?The dye is ragged on. You adjust the color by how dilute you make the dye. It's a powder you mix with hot water. Test it on scrap first, obviously. Once the dye is dry you can brush or pad on the shellac. Shellac takes only about 15-30 minutes of dry time between coats so you can usually get 6-8 coats on in a long day or 3-4 in an evening. It should only need two coats of shellac if you're going to topcoat with Arm-R-Seal. Just sand the shellac back lightly with 320 or 400 and wipe on 2 coats of Arm-r-Seal, sanding with 400 between coats. You can do a final rub out with wax & steel wool after the varnish dries if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Shellac actually clogs the sandpaper very fast though. I just tried it today. So it's not a 'sanding sealer'. http://rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=246 is and has been for 100 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 In the paint shop I worked for several moons ago, we never "sanding sealed" pre-sanding. We sealed post-sanding and only knocked down rough spots after sealing before staining/finishing. I was not the one making the plans but I have used products this way ever since with good success. Are there some applications where sealing is done pre-sanding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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