Please Help A Newbie Build His Norm Abrams Inspired "Ultimate Router Table"

[Eric.]

Why not just buy the table and build the cabinet?  That's what I did.

 

[wdwerker]

Laminate is about 1/16 per sheet when glued properly.

[Beechwood Chip]

Well, I should have mentioned I'd be using glue, of course, but in his video Norm uses screws (and glue) to hold the pieces of MDF together, and he advises that you position the screws so they will not interfere with the cutting of the recess for the plate, etc. Is this wrong?

The glue is what holds it together.  When doing the glue up, you need to hold the pieces together.  Norm often uses brads (in hardwood or ply) or screws (MFD) instead of clamps.  That's fine - the downside is that the screws may get in the way later.

 

I'd put it on a flat surface and put weights on top until the glue sets.  If I had it I'd maybe use a spare sheet of ply or some cauls to spread the weight more evenly.  But screws would work fine if that would be more convenient.

[wtnhighlander]

Don't use standard tapered wood screws in mdf! Even with pilot holes, they will split / chip out the material as they tighten. Use straight-shanked screws instead, like drywall or decking screws. And drill appropriate pilot holes.

[..Kev]

Or use clamps until the glue dries and skip the screws all together..

[TheWoodShouter]

Why not just buy the table and build the cabinet?  That's what I did.

 

I understand you can buy an excellent router table top - I'm sure better than I can build myself - but this is just something I want to do because it will be a great learning experience, and it's a project that I really want to try. Maybe when I'm more experienced I'll then want an even more elaborate top, and at that point maybe I'll buy my next top, but for right now I believe my homemade top will suit me just fine. But that's a very valid question, and one I thought about myself.

 

And by the way, that's a very nice looking router table cabinet, I'd be proud if mine ends up looking half that good ;-)

 

Thanks for stopping by and for your suggestion!

 

-TheWoodShouter

[TheWoodShouter]

Laminate is about 1/16 per sheet when glued properly.

Hmmm.... I was pretty sure I read that it was more like 1/8", but if it's really only 1/16" extra when finished, I would be able to laminate both the top and bottom sides of my table top. Good to know, thanks again, wdworker!

 

-TWS

[mikem]

I used the glue and screw method that Norm described for both the tops I built.  It works well.  The table I finished building earlier this summer I put a lift in it.  I got the Incra version of the PRL-V2.  Yes, it is expensive, but all the benefits it provides makes it WELL worth it.

[TheWoodShouter]

As far as the glue and screws, I was always pretty sure that glue alone would be more than sufficient. Although I'm clearly not the most experienced wood worker, I have never, ever seen wood glue fail, and it's my understanding that the glue bond is in fact stronger than the wood itself. Now, I don't have a shop full of clamps, and I'm not exactly sure what cauls are, but I think I can make this work. I'll simply glue the MDF pieces, and then stack some weight lifting plates or some buckets of sand or some similar heavy object. You guys are right that this way I don't even have to worry the least bit about where to place the screws so they don't interfere with anything else.

 

Can I just ask, I looked quickly today and noticed that Kreg does indeed make a router table lift kit that, at a quick glance, seems to get great reviews. The plate it comes with appears to be the same size as the simple Kreg insert plate I just bought for this project. My question is, can I build my table with the simple insert plate now, and then later if I decide I want to add a lift can I get the Kreg lift kit, and will it simply slide right into my table top? Or, is it better to get the lift kit (any brand) sooner than later, and just build my table top to fit the lift kit plate right from the start?

 

Thanks again for everyone's help, it's these little details that are important, and I really appreciate all the advice!

 

-TheWoodShouter

[..Kev]

The Kreig lift should go quite well with your plate but, I would suggest contacting Kreig first to be sure.  You might also be able to check the part number on your plate against the plate that comes with the lift to get your answer.

[TheWoodShouter]

I used the glue and screw method that Norm described for both the tops I built.  It works well.  The table I finished building earlier this summer I put a lift in it.  I got the Incra version of the PRL-V2.  Yes, it is expensive, but all the benefits it provides makes it WELL worth it.

Hi, and thanks for stopping buy! Do you think the screws you used were absolutely necessary, or, like others here have suggested, do you think that glue alone would hold if the pieces are well clamped when drying? And I know even from other people's posts how much everyone raves about having a router lift, so maybe I should give that some more thought and research them a little bit before I finalize my plans here.

 

Thanks for the input!

 

-TWS

[TheWoodShouter]

The Kreig lift should go quite well with your plate but, I would suggest contacting Kreig first to be sure.  You might also be able to check the part number on your plate against the plate that comes with the lift to get your answer.

Yeah, it's one of those things I'd want to be sure about before I plan on it. As much as I'm excited to get going on this, I have a little more "down time" while we're doing some repainting and what not in my shop area, so maybe I should research these router lifts now.

Thanks again for the help!

-TheWoodShouter

[wdwerker]

My suppliers usually stock post form grade laminate which is a bit thinner. Standard grade is thicker.

[mikem]

The screws simply made it easier to clamp the two piece together.   I still ended up clamp the perimeter and putting weight in the middle where there were no screws.  The glue is what does the work long term.

[TheWoodShouter]

My suppliers usually stock post form grade laminate which is a bit thinner. Standard grade is thicker.

Well, I was just going to use the stuff at the blue big box store. I think they have Formica brand laminate sheets. I'll have to check and see what the actual thickness is, I thought I was told 1/8" but I'm hoping it's that 1/16" you mentioned before.

 

Thanks again for your help!

 

-TheWoodShouter

[TheWoodShouter]

The screws simply made it easier to clamp the two piece together.   I still ended up clamp the perimeter and putting weight in the middle where there were no screws.  The glue is what does the work long term.

Yeah, I think I'm going to try it with nothing but glue; I just don't see how that can fail. I plan on spreading the glue well on both pieces, and then "clamping" them with some heavy objects like weightlifting plates or heavy buckets. I really think that will hold just fine, and it will be easier and less costly than using screws.

 

Thanks for the advice!

 

-TWS

[TheWoodShouter]

OK, you guys really have me thinking about a router table lift before I finalize the plans for my router table. Can someone please just tell me what the popular lifts are that I should be looking at? Do they all work universally with all routers, or do they only work with some brands/models of routers? Is there a lift specifically for my Milwaukee router combo, or should I be looking at a lift that's made to accommodate a 3+ hp router anyway? Is the Kreg lift kit any good? I have their regular plate, and it'd be great if the lift kit plate and their regular plate were the same dimensions so they could be swapped with each other on the same table. I suspect that's the case because they are both made to fit the Kreg brand router table they also sell. If that's true, then I can use what I have now and add the lift kit and a bigger router later.

 

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all the help and advice!

 

-TWS

[..Kev]

Big can of worms there 

 

For the most part, lifts are not universal with any router.  As you look at them, they will tell you what routers they work with.

 

Some popular models to take a look at (I'm sure others will add to the list) - Jessem, Kreig, Woodpicker, Incra..  Each have their own little twist and features.  

[TheWoodShouter]

Big can of worms there 

 

For the most part, lifts are not universal with any router.  As you look at them, they will tell you what routers they work with.

 

Some popular models to take a look at (I'm sure others will add to the list) - Jessem, Kreig, Woodpicker, Incra..  Each have their own little twist and features.  

Yes, I'm looking now, and quickly seeing this. I'm actually watching the video for the JessEM Mast-R-Lift, and it looks like this will fit the Milwaukee 5616 2.25 hp router I have now, and it will accommodate several of the more powerful routers, such as the Milwaukee 5625, if I want to go that way. So I'd be interested in something like this, but I'd like to do a little more research about it because I'm still not convinced......

 

It probably makes sense to just get a router lift now, I know everyone talks about how great it is to have one, but isn't this one of those things that I won't really appreciate until I've done it the hard way first? I mean, I chose the Milwaukee router in part because it featured above the table bit changes. I now understand that the range of travel of the Milwaukee mechanism is not as great or nearly as precise as having a real lift, and it was also mentioned that the mechanism tends to wear out quickly, unfortunately, but isn't it worth a try first? In all honesty I'm a complete amateur, hobby-level woodworker. For the amount of projects I will likely do, maybe I'll find the Milwaukee router I have now is really all I need. Am I crazy to think this way? I'll drop the money on the lift if it's really, really recommended, but it'd be ideal if I could start with what I have, and upgrade to a lift and/or a more powerful router if I truly find I need them.

 

Any thoughts??

 

As always, I very much appreciate all the advice, please keep it coming!

 

-TWS

[Dan S]

So for right now the biggest question I have is how would you guys suggest I build the top?

I'd recommend 3 layers of 3/4" MDF laminated together and then covered top and bottom with Formica.

 

I have several more questions about the top, specifically attaching the hardwood edging to the MDF table top

This is probably the only time I would recommend biscuits.

 

To me it makes sense to add some leveler screws to middle of the longest sides of the router plate, but I've yet to see plans that incorporate this, so perhaps my thinking is flawed (wouldn't be the first time!). Any ideas?

regardless of what leveling devise you choose you only need 4, one in each corner of the plate. If you put them in the middle of a side, it will act as a fulcrum that the plate will rock on top of.

I built a custom version of NYW deluxe table and documented it here.

http://www.dans-hobbies.com/project/router-table/

If you have any other questions, I'll be happy to chime in with my opinion.

[mikem]

Looking at the Kreg router lift I realized...  It is actually Woodpecker's PRL-V2 lift, basically the same one I have.  The difference is that it has a Kreg plate (similar to mine has an Incra plate) rather than a woodpecker plate.  You will not go wrong with that lift.

[TheWoodShouter]

@Dan S, thank you very, very much for all that info! You really addressed some my core questions in just that one post, so thank you again. I cannot believe I did not find your project page just by searching around, but I will be sure to read it in full when I have a chance as it looks very informative indeed. In the meantime, could I please ask for more help/info on:

 

Three layers of 3/4" MDF would be very stable indeed, but WAY over the recommended thickness if I'm going to use the Kreg brand table insert plate levelers. Do you suggest I abandon those levelers in favor of the more standard - and longer - leveler screws sold by Rockler and the like (and used by Norm in his video)? I will do top and bottom faces in Formica laminate, as per wdworker above, and I now see what you mean about putting the levelers in only the corners; that makes perfect sense.

 

As for attaching the hardwood edging to the top, how did you know my question was going to be about the biscuits, lol?? But seriously, I don't have a plate joiner, and I did enough reading to know that biscuits are falling out of favor for a few reason, and since I already have the Kreg jig and I'm learning other forms of more traditional joinery, is it really worth it to beg, borrow, or buy a plate joiner for this one application? Is there any other recommended way to get that edging to glue up nice and flush to the top face? Is there no way to attach the hardwood edging a little proud of the top face, and then use some kind of flush trim router bit to make it perfectly flat? If not, it's OK, I will either find someone with a plate joiner to help me with this one step, or I'll have to get one I guess.

 

Any advice you can offer would be great!

 

Thanks again for your help!!

[..Kev]

Yes, I'm looking now, and quickly seeing this. I'm actually watching the video for the JessEM Mast-R-Lift, and it looks like this will fit the Milwaukee 5616 2.25 hp router I have now, and it will accommodate several of the more powerful routers, such as the Milwaukee 5625, if I want to go that way. So I'd be interested in something like this, but I'd like to do a little more research about it because I'm still not convinced......

 

It probably makes sense to just get a router lift now, I know everyone talks about how great it is to have one, but isn't this one of those things that I won't really appreciate until I've done it the hard way first? I mean, I chose the Milwaukee router in part because it featured above the table bit changes. I now understand that the range of travel of the Milwaukee mechanism is not as great or nearly as precise as having a real lift, and it was also mentioned that the mechanism tends to wear out quickly, unfortunately, but isn't it worth a try first? In all honesty I'm a complete amateur, hobby-level woodworker. For the amount of projects I will likely do, maybe I'll find the Milwaukee router I have now is really all I need. Am I crazy to think this way? I'll drop the money on the lift if it's really, really recommended, but it'd be ideal if I could start with what I have, and upgrade to a lift and/or a more powerful router if I truly find I need them.

 

Any thoughts??

 

As always, I very much appreciate all the advice, please keep it coming!

 

-TWS

 

I have the Jessem Table/lift with the big Porter Cable router and can honestly say it's awesome!  I can also say that it may very well be cost prohibitive for a lot of people, myself included.  I saved for a while to get that set up.

[Dan S]

Three layers of 3/4" MDF would be very stable indeed, but WAY over the recommended thickness if I'm going to use the Kreg brand table insert plate levelers. Do you suggest I abandon those levelers in favor of the more standard - and longer - leveler screws sold by Rockler and the like (and used by Norm in his video)? I will do top and bottom faces in Formica laminate, as per wdworker above, and I now see what you mean about putting the levelers in only the corners; that makes perfect sense.

The 3 layers, is to help minimize sag. While doing research before building my table I found several people mention that their 2 layer tops had started to sag over time because of the weight. This may or may not be important to you, as it depends on what you want to use the table to do.

see this thread for a good explanation

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?73996-router-table-flatness

I have a bench dog lift, and it plus the router probably ways 30 lbs. When I considered it's only supported by MDF (not the most structurally sound material) 24/7 for multiple years an extra layer of MDF seemed like cheap insurance. I in fact epoxied steel bars into my top, and made the width of the center opening as narrow as possible. I've since come to the conclusion that the steel bars are overkill, and the extra layer and narrow center probably would have been sufficient.

Personally I would't recommend store bought levelers. I'd recommend you drill a hole all the way through the top put a threaded insert on top. Then you can use regular brass bolts (won't hurt your plate), nuts and washers through the bottom. This arrangement will allow you to lock the levelers in place so that the vibrations from the router won't unscrew them.

 

As for attaching the hardwood edging to the top, how did you know my question was going to be about the biscuits, lol?? But seriously, I don't have a plate joiner, and I did enough reading to know that biscuits are falling out of favor for a few reason, and since I already have the Kreg jig and I'm learning other forms of more traditional joinery, is it really worth it to beg, borrow, or buy a plate joiner for this one application? Is there any other recommended way to get that edging to glue up nice and flush to the top face? Is there no way to attach the hardwood edging a little proud of the top face, and then use some kind of flush trim router bit to make it perfectly flat?

I will fully admit to being a snob when it comes to the joinery used on furniture. A router table however is not furniture, it's a tool so any joinery method will do as long as its a sound joint. You really don't need and type of secondary fastener, as the glue is more than strong enough by itself. biscuits just make alignment easier. Regardless of how you attach the edging, i'd recommend you make it wider than needed and then trim it flush with a router.

[Randy Thurman-Keup]

 

It probably makes sense to just get a router lift now, I know everyone talks about how great it is to have one, but isn't this one of those things that I won't really appreciate until I've done it the hard way first? I mean, I chose the Milwaukee router in part because it featured above the table bit changes. I now understand that the range of travel of the Milwaukee mechanism is not as great or nearly as precise as having a real lift, and it was also mentioned that the mechanism tends to wear out quickly, unfortunately, but isn't it worth a try first? In all honesty I'm a complete amateur, hobby-level woodworker. For the amount of projects I will likely do, maybe I'll find the Milwaukee router I have now is really all I need. Am I crazy to think this way? I'll drop the money on the lift if it's really, really recommended, but it'd be ideal if I could start with what I have, and upgrade to a lift and/or a more powerful router if I truly find I need them.

 

Any thoughts??

 

 

No, you're not crazy.  I have the Milwaukee router and use the built-in lift in a table.  Yes, it's not as precise, and requires more care and effort than the quality lifts, but as I am a hobbyist, I don't really need the time saving features enough to spend the extra money on the lifts.  I'm also not overly concerned about accuracy.  Again, it requires a bit of care, and maybe some knowledge about how gravity, friction, and the lifting screw coexist, but so far it's been precise enough for me.  And besides, as you said, if you find that it doesn't work well for you, you can always upgrade to a quality lift later.