Safety Advice

[Cowboy59]

All,

Today I was speaking with a professional custom woodworker. I was sharing with him the types of projects that my son and I were going be working on. I went on to explain that we were equipping our new work shop with a SawStop 3hp cabinet saw. He shared with me that he has a SawStop as well, but that he only recommends sawing non-hardwoods on a table saw for safety reasons. He recommends only sawing hardwoods on a bandsaw. At this point my I am not ready to buy a bandsaw, while it certainly is in our future. Currently we only purchase 8/4 lumber or smaller. I would like to know everyone's thoughts regarding the safety of sawing hardwoods on a table saw, as I do not want to be doing anything that is not considered to be a safe practice.

Thanks in advance

[Bombarde16]

Hard woods or hardwoods?

The terms means lots of different things and get tossed around. For us woodworkers, hardwood means anything from a tree that had leaves. Evergreens OTOH are blanketed under the term "softwood". Absolute material hardness, however, is measured by trying to dent the surface in a standardized test with a steel ball. This is independent of species and you can have a hard hardwood (i.e. ebony or bubinga) versus a soft hardwood (balsa) or even soft softwoods versus hard softwoods...

As to running any of this through the table saw and with all due respect, I think your friend is off track at best and possibly completely nuts. Safety at the saw is entirely independent of species. If you're doing something stupid that would cause a kickback with purpleheart, you'll just as easily get a kickback with basswood.

The only adjustment you might make would be in blade selection: For very dense woods, perhaps you switch to a coarser blade (fewer teeth = more cutting power behind each tooth in contact with the wood at any given moment) and/or a smaller blade such as a circular saw blade (narrower kerf taxes the motor less and the smaller radius effectively increases the power that the saw can put behind the teeth).

[bywc]

Yeah I agree with Rob, Woodworkers daily are using table saws to cut "hardwood".

Unless maybe he is referring to a specific function you were describing you plan on doing and he was referring to that beyond that I can't think what he would be talking about.

[russjohnson]

Are you sure he wasn't talking about re-sawing by chance? I agree with Rob soft or hard the same mistakes can send a board back at you.

[Cowboy59]

Thank you gentlemen. I had never heard that you should not use a table saw for cutting hardwood. He actually stated that sawing hardwoods on table saws was unsafe and he only cuts plywood sheets and sheet type goods on the table saw. He does all hardwood cutting on a bandsaw. His reasoning was that the fibers in hardwoods are under tension and the tension is being released when cut. Due to how a table saw cuts, the releasing of the tension can cause the wood to bind on the blade and cause kickback, etc. Interestingly enough he did mention that a riving knife was critical to saw safety. Not having a great deal of experience cutting hardwoods I was left not knowing how to digest his advice.

Further commentary is certainly welcomed.

[Beechwood Chip]

At first I thought the guy was crazy, but ...

It is safer to cut things on a bandsaw than on a table saw, because a band saw blade pulls the wood into the table, so there's no chance of kick-back. And, I've had a wood (in my case pine, a softwood) clamp down on my table saw blade. That can't happen with ply or MDF. So, he's not wrong.

On the other hand, it's safer to buy furniture at Ikea and never use any wood working tools. The table saw will give straighter, more accurate cuts than a band saw. Most woodworkers who use power tools use a table saw for cutting (soft and hard) wood.

[Mister Pants]

It sounds to me like the guy may have had a bad experience in the past which has led him to that conclusion. As Beechwood mentions, a bandsaw is safer as it won't kick back, but the explanation the other gentleman gave you of tension is somewhat off base. Technically it's correct in that frequently there is tension inherent in hardwood that is released when cut (that's why we have riving knives/splitters) which can result in the wood binding back into the blade. However that is in no way exclusive to hardwoods. In my experience I've had more tension problems of that nature in softwood than I have in hardwood. It strikes me that he likely had a bad pinch/bind and kickback in the past that changed his working habits (and as a wild guess with no obvious knowledge may have also been impacted by him removing the splitter from an old tablesaw which would create the kickback). If it works for him great, but I wouldn't put too much stock into it.

[WoodClips]

It sounds like this person's recommendation is to only cut sheet goods on the table saw and use the bandsaw for solid woods.

When I'm dimensioning narrow pieces, I like to bandsaw them to rough width, joint one edge, and then plane the other edge to achieve the final width. This eliminates narrow rip cuts where my hand needs to be in close proximity to the table saw blade.

When there are multiple methods to choose from that will achieve the same result, I don't see any reason to discount someone who has chosen safety over speed. It boils down to a personal decision about how you want to work, much like the decision to use power tools vs. hand tools when both will do the job. In this case, it sounds like this person has chosen safety as his top priority. Based on the number of professional woodworkers I've known who have a missing or mangled finger tip, I can't say I blame him.

Rory

[Guest Trace]

Cowboy, I think you have been listening to person who does not know the limits of both his tools and personal skills. A band saw is a marvelous tool, but cannot be used for a lot of the operations that are easily performed on a table saw. The table saw cannot do some of the things possible on a band saw. I have cut oak, maple and other hardwoods on my table saw with no problems for 40 plus years. In only one instance was this a mistake. And the mistake was mine not the fault of the saw. (17 stitches later my knuckle was back in one piece) Being careful at all times is the trick. Hardwoods are eaiser to shape than softwoods due to being more stable, having a lot less tendancy to pinch or twist when being cut. I would consider talking to the members of a local woodworkers club, attending their meetings, and their workshops. Pick their brains, look at the tools in the club shop, ask questions. You probably should not base the descision to buy or not buy a particular tool one the basis of one conversation, or for that matter, what looks pretty in the ads. The best advice I could give is find a good mentor.

[Bombarde16]

Cowboy, I think you have been listening to person who does not know the limits of both his tools and personal skills.

Perhaps the opposite. It sounds like this is someone who has quite precisely defined their personal limits and those limits are what we would consider excessively conservative. Nothing wrong with that in principle and it's better than being too reckless.

I for one would be loathe to give up what the table saw can do with solid wood. Cove cuts in particular jump to mind. Suffice it to say that one most certainly can cut hardwoods (deciduous trees), hard wood (high Janka tests) and solid wood (anything not held together with glue) on the table saw. Whether this is ultimately something that you want to be a part of what you do in your personal shop is up to you and there's no wrong answer.

Good hunting.

[Vic]

Although, I have a tablesaw and bandsaw both, I totally get the guys point of using the bandsaw whenever possible over the tablesaw. It is inherently safer to use. I didn't really get this until I had a day seminar with Michael Fortune. He hardly ever uses a tablesaw. If I were to start all over, I'd probably have a couple bandsaws and a good track saw instead. But, if you keep safety in mind, you can go through your whole life and keep all your digits. Also, do NOT stand behind the material...lol long story...gut shot, lesson learned. Even still have a scar to remind myself of what the beast in the middle of the room can do. Respect it. I also see you're buying a Sawstop. Don't let that in anyway make you let down your guard. Also, be sure not to cut overly wet woods, which will more than likely be the softer variety.

[Cowboy59]

Thank you to all of you.

As with any tool, safety should be considered throughout any operation of a power tool. Just like putting end grain through a planer is not a safe practice, I am certain the woodworker who was counseling me was giving his most well intentioned advice.

I am glad to hear that many of you saw hardwoods on a table saw, as that would be my intention and I wanted to make sure I was not aware of some issue that I was oblivious to before ordering a new table saw. Since I have never had a 3 hp cabinet saw, I have shied away from most hardwood work and wanted to make sure I could meet my goals if I order a new saw.

As was suggested by others, I too would choose a band saw to cut large stock to a more manageable size for working on the table saw. However, I currently do not own a band saw and thus order wood that is pre-milled close to my desired finished size. I look forward to adding a nice band saw to my collection of tools, but feel relieved by all of your comments that I can work on hardwoods of reasonable size on a table saw, and as always should follow best practices to insure the greatest level of safety.

This was my first post and am thankful for the numerous helpful comments. What great support.

Happy woodworking to all.

[Beechwood Chip]

Since I have never had a 3 hp cabinet saw, I have shied away from most hardwood work ...

If you're interested, I wrote this post on table-saw safety a while back. You might also check out Marc's safety videos - besides the specific info, they will give you a good idea of what's reasonable and what's crazy with each tool. But as almost anyone will tell you, you are the final judge of what's safe. Never do something you see in a video or read in a post, if you don't think it's safe, or if it "feels wrong".

[Cowboy59]

If you're interested, I wrote this post on table-saw safety a while back. You might also check out Marc's safety videos - besides the specific info, they will give you a good idea of what's reasonable and what's crazy with each tool. But as almost anyone will tell you, you are the final judge of what's safe. Never do something you see in a video or read in a post, if you don't think it's safe, or if it "feels wrong".

Thank you. Good material. I am going to be sure my son watches them as well.

[jshale55]

The Sawstop is a quality product and good for cutting hardwoods. Just make sure you keep your guards in place when available and use your brain to make sure you work safely. One day while in a hurry, I did not bother putting an outfeed roller up, because I was only dadoing one piece of molding. Cost me the tip of one finger, 4 days in hospital and insurance company about 20 grand. I work much safer now. Use every available safety device every time. I had 20 years experience, which made me way overconfident.

[Bombarde16]

As was suggested by others, I too would choose a band saw to cut large stock to a more manageable size for working on the table saw.

Actually, the old standbys of jigsaw, circular saw or even reciprocating saw would be my choice. I've even gone the neanderthal route and used elbow grease when working after hours and I have to get something done quietly. Once you get into big, heavy chunks of lignum that need to be crudely disassembled before any precision work, you'll want to leave the board stationary and make your first cuts with a hand-held tool. Band saw or table saw, horsing a massive board up into the blade is still perilous.