SOLVED - Plane Blades Rusting During and After Sharpening

[KevinE22]

EDIT:  I believe I have solved this issue, please see my explanation under the pictures in this post.

 

Hi All,

I recently bought a DMT Duo-Sharp (220/320 grit) and three Shapton Professional Whetstones (1500, 5000, 8000) and am starting to learn to sharpen my plane blades and chisels.

Yesterday I was sharpening the plane blade of my no-name Chinese made smoothing plane (I have no idea what kind of steel A1/2, O1/2, etc).  While flattening the back of the plane blade on the DMT Stone, the blade quickly began rusting all over except for the parts that I was honing (I assuming due to the water used as lubricant on the stone, and the parts that were not rusting were being abraded away).  During sharpening, my DMT Stone pretty much turned an Orange-ish Yellow color, and I was unable to wash clean with water.  Rusting continued through the Shapton stones as well (although no staining as occurred on the DMT Stone).

This morning, I looked at the blade and can even see a few micro pits at the top of the polished edges with a 25x loop.

Questions:

1) Is it just cheap steel that is causing this rusting?  I don't have any high-end hand tools at the moment (practicing before I spend the Lie-Nielsen money) to get an idea of what I should be expecting during this process.

2) How can I prevent this rusting from happening during sharpening?

3) What is the best way to prevent the steel from rusting over AFTER sharpening (for all tools, in general, too)?

4) Any way I can safely and effectively clean the rust deposits on the DMT Stone and Plastic Stand?  Shapton stones show no discoloration. (Included a picture of the non-rusted side of DMT Stone for comparison).

Thanks In Advance!

Day After Rusting - Far Shot

Day After Rusting - Close Shot

DMT - Clean Side

DMT Stand - Rust In Stand

 

 

SOLUTION:

So, I wanted to follow up and post my findings after researching and studying this problem in more depth.  I know how frustrating it is to search a forum for answers to a problem you have and see the question you need answered posted, but no answer!

So, first off, the tool I was sharpening was purchased in 2014, and has sat in a tool drawer unused for the last three years until yesterday.  During all those years, I left the manufacturer applied coating on the steel, and did not clean it off until yesterday with Naphta just prior to sharpening.  I'm assuming the coating applied was some kind of Cosmoline, but I'll never know for sure.

I cleaned both my blade and the DMT stone successfully with White Vinegar and a Brass brush, and all rust deposits came off with no apparent damage to the DMT stone or plastic base. Examining the areas of the blade that were rusting with a 25x loop, it is clear there is a substantial amount of Micropitting on the blade, which caused the Pitting Corrosion.  I believe over the years the tool was sitting in the drawer covered in Cosmoline and exposed to Oxygen, and eventually became cathodic (meaning the steel chemically lost ions).  During sharpening I was aggressively reshaping the blade, and frequently washing off the tool and stones with water to remove the massive amounts of slurry that were building up.  I believe an ionic additive in the City water (such as Flouride) provided the additional ions the steel had lost as the Cosmoline oxidized on the surface, creating the anodic side of the reaction, causing the almost instantaneous Galvanic Corrosion.  This is reinforced by the significant and distinct smell of ozone noticed during the sharpening.  Areas of the blade that I had significantly ground down flat and polished with the 8000 grit stone had no visible micropitting, and never rusted over.

So... lessons learned:

1) Don't buy cheap tools to begin with.

2) Clean off manufacturer tool coating ASAP.

3) Don't sharpen your tools on your granite counter next to the sink in the kitchen, or your wife will be SUPER angry at you.

Thanks all for your comments and suggestions as I was figuring this out!

Edited May 23, 2017 by KevinE22
Solved Problem

[OldSouthWoodCraft]

1 - I think this is an issue of very cheap tool steel.

2 - Wipe your tools frequently with a dry cloth or with a lightly damp oil rag.

3 - Wipe down all of the steel pieces and parts with rag that has a nice coating of PBlaster or CMT tool lubricant.

4 - Soak the stone in straight white vinegar and the light scrub with a brass bristle brush. Wipe or scrub the plastic mount with white vinegar.

 

On a side note I would take off the chip breaker while you are sharpening. This should make it easier to get the right bevel on your steel.

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

 

[drzaius]

Strange. I've never had a tool rust at all during sharpening. Has to be the steel.

[BonPacific]

That is really strange. I'd also say this has to be some seriously questionable steel. That said, you should be able to work around it if you can't replace your plane/iron.

Try sharpening dry on the DMT stones, it's not quite as pleasant, but it will work. You could also try automotive glass cleaner, which should rust a little less. DMT also mentions that you can use mineral oil or WD40 in a pinch, but shouldn't leave these products on the stone during storage.

[KevinE22]

Thanks @OldSouthWoodCraft, I appreciate your responses!  Quick Follow up questions:

On #2, When you said wipe with dry cloth or damp oil rag... any particular kind of oil?  Would that have any impact on the stones while sharpening, since they are water stones?

On #3, When you refer to PBlaster, is THIS what you are referring too?  When you refer to CMT Tool Lubricant, is THIS what you are referring too?  Any concern about resedue from any kind of Petroleum derivative in these products left on the tool during use that would impact the finishing stage on the wood (Fisheye, Orange Peel, etc.)?

Yes, Chip Breaker was removed during sharpening, as I also ground down the front leading edge of the chip breaker to have a 100% flat seal across the plane blade so there is no place for chip shavings to collect and clog up.  I used a Veritas MK 2 honing guide during sharpening.  Oddly enough, there is no sign of any rusting on the chip breaker... so maybe they are two different kinds of steel from the same manufacture?

It took me a solid three hours of work on the plane blade to get it sharp... is that a normal amount of time for an "out-of-the-box" tool?  I used a 25x loop during sharpening, and continued to sharpen at each grit until I had a consistent scratch pattern across the entire surface as seen under the 25x loop.

THIS is the smoothing plane I am working on.

Thanks for all your advice, and taking the time to comment!

[BonPacific]

23 minutes ago, KevinE22 said:

It took me a solid three hours of work on the plane blade to get it sharp... is that a normal amount of time for an "out-of-the-box" tool?  I used a 25x loop during sharpening, and continued to sharpen at each grit until I had a consistent scratch pattern across the entire surface as seen under the 25x loop.

THIS is the smoothing plane I am working on.

Thanks for all your advice, and taking the time to comment!

That's way too long, though I've never heard from anyone using a magnifying loop to check their scratch pattern. You're overthinking this.

Judging by the reviews on the product you linked to, and the fact this is a complete no-name brand, I'd say you're probably better off cutting your losses. If it's rusting that quick and taking that long to sharpen, it'll never be pleasant to use. If it ins't pleasant to use/sharpen, you won't use it.

[Mark J]

I agree with the above.  I would also question whether the steel will hold an edge and hence is worth the work -- other than for the practice.  

As to the 3 hour part, it can take a long to flatten the back of a low quality (garage sale/flee market) plane blade or a long time to change the main bevel angle.  But the micro bevel should go on in a few minutes of work and thereafter sharpening that up to higher grits should only a few minutes for each grit.  

And 25x magnification seems a bit much.  Once the sharpened surface is uniformly shinny you are probably done with that grit.  Each successive grit will increase the shine.

Try coloring the edge you are sharpening with a Sharpie marker.  Take a couple of stokes and look at how the ink has been removed.  That will give you a feel of how many strokes it takes to "scratch" the whole surface.

[KevinE22]

Thanks @BonPacific.

Yes, I'm definitely an analytical kind of thinker!  I like to have a solid understanding of all the principles effecting what I'm working on.  It drives me crazy not to know how or why something is or isn't working if I'm part of the process, and just hope the "black magic" does it's job!  In all my research on sharpening, I've heard a lot of different methods of "how do I know I'm done"... and they all rely on some kind of guesstimate.  If I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it right or I won't do it at all.  The only way I've come across to know 100% is to observe the progress under magnification and observe the abrasions in the metal.

Considering I sharpened a few "Home Depot" grade chisels with the same process and only took me about an hour start-to-finish and no rusting issues, I think I'm in agreement that there is something seriously wrong with this tool steel.  Perhaps I should just bite the bullet and buy some quality Lie-Nielsen tools, I just want to make sure I know enough so I don't screw something up on a $400 bench plane!

Thanks for the advice and comments!  This is a hard hobby to learn without hands-on guidance!

[Tom King]

It's the water.  Probably city water.   I leave my sharpening setup in sinks in museum houses that I work in, sometimes for a couple of years at the time.   The water in one house that I worked in did that.  It was city water.   I've never had well water do it, but it's probably possible somewhere.   I put a double filter temporarily in that house, and it solved the problem.  One was a charcoal filter, and the other a particulate filter.

It's not the steel.  It did it to anything I put under that tap before I put the filters on.

No promise that this will work for your water, but it worked for my problem house:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/251508763219?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[OldSouthWoodCraft]

@KevinE22

 

Regarding wiping your tools with an oily rag I wouldn't saturate the rag too much. You only want to wipe off the residual water and apply a micro thin layer of oil. The tool shouldn't feel oily to the touch but should have light sheen appear on the metal to protect it from moisture.

 

As far the products I recommended those that you found online are the correct products. If you only lightly wipe the tools with them they should have zero effect on the finishing of your final product. However if you are worried about oil residue you can always wipe your piece down with mineral spirits. This will remove any potential residue plus it will help grab any remaining dust from sanding.

 

And your part about taking hours to sharpen is way too much time. I've sharpened plane blades and chisels in less than an hour all together including stropping. Just look for a nice reflection from the micro bevel and you are golden on the sharpening and honing. Or do the shaved hair test if you have hairy arms like most of us.

[KevinE22]

@Tom King, that is a very interesting point... I had not considered that.

I think as a matter of research, I'll figure out how to remove all of the rust from this blade (either physically or chemically) and attempt to resharpen the same blade using distilled water, and see if any rusting develops.

Since I've sharpened a few other tools with the same water source and had no rusting, I'm a little skeptical, but not willing to cross it off the list yet as a cause.  I live in the DFW Metroplex in Texas, so I should have a fairly decent source of city water... but who knows.  There could be some kind of impurity in the metal that is combining with another mineral in the water and causing this super fast oxidation.  I've never seen something rust over in a matter of minutes like this.

[Immortan D]

Following Paul Seller's advice, I use Windex-like products instead of water on my DMT stones and wipe them dry after use. So far, no rust.

[KevinE22]

@Immortan D, Can you also use Windex on the Shapton Professional Whetstones, or do you think that would cause issues?

[Immortan D]

Just now, KevinE22 said:

@Immortan D, Can you also use Windex on the Shapton Professional Whetstones, or do you think that would cause issues?

I only do DMT stones, so I wouldn't know.

[Tom King]

The distilled water would be a good test.  Probably even just bottled water would be different.   It's interesting that other steels didn't do that.

I remember Brendon bought a Primus plane from me when I was working in that house before I installed the filters.  I expect the steel in the Primus irons is not the cheapest, but remember it turning color as soon as I put it under the stream of water when I sharpened it before sending the plane.  It did the same to Stanley irons, and Record chisels.

edited to add after seeing your edit on your first post:   I'm glad you figured it out, and would have bet money that the water played a part.  I've never had any issue with non-city water on anything, new or old.  I guess it was the charcoal filter that solved the problem for me.  Those filters went under the portable sink that I now have for sharpening for whatever I run into in the future.