Miter saw question..

[wdwerker]

I've got an old 12" Dewalt SCMS. It's fine for running crown , base & trim. It's ok for rough cutting parts that will be recut on a sled or my slider/tablesaw. It's not accurate enough for any cabinet or furniture joinery . I spend hours dialing in my slider to cut a perfect 90 on 32" wide stock about every 6-8 months. There is always a little play in any  regular miter saw that translates into a ripple in the cut, sliding mitersaws just add more moving parts. 

[bushwacked]

3 hours ago, Marmotjr said:

I use the Hitachi all the time at work, and it's a good saw.  It's big compared to the festool Kapex's we have, but that's also a 12 vs 10.  The zero clearance on the back side is a very nice option as we can wheel the cart around and it won't interfere with walking/working space behind it.  It also means that we can put up a blast shield that doesn't have any holes cut into it, unlike the dewalts we also have (we have about 8 miter saw carts in use on the floor), which require a slot for the slider to go into, reducing the blast shield's effectiveness.  

The slider on the HItachi is also a 'double slider'.  The saw part has it own set of bearings on the rails, and so does the base, and you can lock down either set so the rail can either stay forward and the saw slides on the rail, or the rail slides on the base, or keep them both loose for some reason I haven't thought of. 

I prefer the action of the Hitachi over the Kapex, as it doesn't require a double trigger action to activate.  Not that the Kapex is hard to operate, just that the Hitachi is easier.

The dust collection isn't as effective as the Kapex though.  BUT, we don't hook our saws up to a DC, unless we are cutting a bunch of MDF or LSL, and we really don't want that much of that dust flying around, and then it's just a shop vac.  The Kapex seems to route the dust into the chute much more effectively, and it will spray like a snow blower, wherever we aim it.  The Hitachi seems to get a good portion of the dust into or near the chute, but we have a bag attached (that rarely get's emtpied), so it's tough to tell how much is actually going in.  With the proper shields in place and hooked upto a good DC, the Hitachi shouldn't have much trouble handling the dust. 

The 12" models of the Hitachi we use have a weirdly shaped insert, so if you wanted to make a ZCI for it, it would be a heck of a process fitting a shop made ZCI.  Hitachi just this month (I believe) released the 10" version (which I'm eye balling for my own shop), and I'm pretty sure that insert is rectangular, so making a ZCI would be simple.  I'd assume this was a design change based on user feedback, and I'd expect newer 12" Hitachi's to have this also, but that is purely a guess. 

The miter gauge detents on the Hitachi are rock solid, and they click into place very easily one handed.  Even while using a sacrificial fence and table, I can easily see where the miter is set to, and it always clicks into 45* when I ask it too.  It also easily locks down to non detent angles with a quick twist.  The Kapex also has very accurate miters, but I don't like the way there are a couple small detents around the 45* angle (present on all our Kapexs), I always have to double check to make sure it's clicked in properly.  And the gauge is set fairly far back on the saw, so when using a sac table and fence, I have to use a flashlight to confirm the miter angle.  The tilt angle on the Kapex is also a little tricky to figure out at first without the manual, but once you figure it out, it's fine.  I've only done one compound angle on the Hitachi, but that was a breeze to setup. 

The laser indicator is much more precise on the Kapex vs the HItachi, but this may just be a focusing/calibration issue.  It's a shop with many users, and that sort of 'gimmicky' thing (so says one of the old timers) can often get ignored, so it may be fine.  But for any extremely accurate cut, I always lower the blade to line up with my mark, and then nibble away till I hit it.  In this aspect, the Hitachi is far superior, as just pulling down on the handle will raise the guard and allow you to align the cut, while the Kapex actually requires a quick trigger pull.  

The Kapex is a great saw and I would love to have one in my shop if given one, but I cannot justify the price of it vs the Hitachi.   The areas the Hitachi lacks vs the Kapex is balanced out by the areas it is superior.  Unless you have the opportunity to use them side by side doing similar work, you would be happy with either saw, and even then, it would come down to personal preference on ergonomics, and then you just have to get your hands on one to feel the differences. 

 

Extremely informative post. Thanks!!! Glad to hear it holds up pretty well against the kapex 

[Marmotjr]

To replace a busted Kapex and a Hitachi 12", we just got 2 of the new 10" Hitachi's in today.  I'm pretty impressed right off the bat.  Laser line with obvious adjustments, LED lighting, VERY small footprint, offset rails for the sliders (I'm guessing it might help endurance and reliability), Square ZCI plate (stock is not ZC though),  and a back fence that seems to be higher and wider than the 12".  I'll probably get to do some first cuts with it tomorrow, I'll report back.  But first impressions are favorable, especially including the fact the DC chute is pretty hefty. 

[Marmotjr]

So.... bad news for those looking at the 10" Hitachi.

One of the 'features' on the 12" that I liked vs the Kapex, the single trigger start, has been replaced with the Festool style 2 trigger pull start.   That's all fine and good, but they left the handle horizontal, not vertical.  And there is only one thumb trigger, on the left.  Meaning, you cannot run the saw with your left hand.   So if you are doing miters on trim, You gotta twist yourself around to get it to run.

Secondly, and pretty importantly, we determined there was too much slop in the cut, so we boxed up the one we had opened and sent both of them back. 

[wdwerker]

Big Sky Tools sells a lot of Hitachi tools refurbished. The just happen to be a few miles from my house.  So if you are looking for a deal they might have something for you. 

https://bigskytool.com/hitachi-reconditioned-tools.html

[BillyJack]

On 10/19/2017 at 7:15 PM, wdwerker said:

I've got an old 12" Dewalt SCMS. It's fine for running crown , base & trim. It's ok for rough cutting parts that will be recut on a sled or my slider/tablesaw. It's not accurate enough for any cabinet or furniture joinery . I spend hours dialing in my slider to cut a perfect 90 on 32" wide stock about every 6-8 months. There is always a little play in any  regular miter saw that translates into a ripple in the cut, sliding mitersaws just add more moving parts. 

Actually it is accurate. Might be something on your end. bad saw,blade,etc...

My Dewalt 708 is extremely accurate...

 

 

[Tom King]

I wouldn't trade my 708 for any other one by any manufacturer.

[Marmotjr]

So to replace the 10" hitachi's we got to replace the others, we picked up a Bosch Glide 10".  I haven't had time to use it a lot personally, but only made a few cuts.  But man is that thing sexy.  Smooth as butter, far the easiest to use saw in the shop.  We'll be picking up a second one shortly.  Dead square cuts, easy to use handle once you figure out the movements of the double trigger.  Both the miter and tilt controls in one place, solid detents.