Painting cabinets(new construction), need advice

[xxdabroxx]

I'm about to start on my kitchen cabinets and I'm planning on a painted finish.  That said, I do not want to brush these things (I hate painting, my pantry took way too long to brush).  I'm willing to buy a gravity feed HVLP gun if need be or use my grandpa's old Binks siphon gun.  I have a decent sized air compressor that I feel will be adequate to get the job done.  That being said I'm in need of some help from you guys, probably @wdwerker would know a lot about this. 

What paint can I use to get a good long lived finish in a kitchen?  It needs to be tintable as I'm planning on doing the uppers in white and the lowers in some sort of blue grey color (whatever my fiance picks).  I've heard good things about Glidden Diamond 350 being sprayable although I'm not sure if it needs to be thinned first in a non-airless application.  As of now I'm planning on spraying it over some kind of sanding sealer (open to suggestions). 

I'm planning on using poplar, birch ply, and MDF.  MDF will be for the panels in the doors unless someone things that will be a terrible idea.  I wanted to use that over 1/4" ply to give the doors some extra heft.

[wdwerker]

If the finish gets the tiniest scratch or flaw moisture will turn MDF into a swollen sponge. This will happen on base cabinets, not if WHEN !  Glidden is house paint !    You want a true cabinet/ furniture finish , especially in a new house ! I use M L Campbell's Agualente pre catalysed  satin finishes ( waterbourne). It comes in a tintable base or a clear finish. The primer sands wonderfully ! ( so does the clear sanding sealer ). Some dealers only sell it to pro shops.  General Finishes makes tintable waterbourne finishes too. 

My ML Campbell & General dealers ( cabinet supply stores not Woodcraft etc )both offer color matching service. I often get finishes tinted to match the color chips from paint stores/departments.  Expect $60 - $80 a gallon ( or more on the left coast ) for color matched finishes. 

A HVLP gun sprays better than a airless gun. Turbine or compressed air (conversion ) HVLP guns do fine. Read about the recommended needle & air cap needed for your finish choice. Use their compatible primer & sand 320 grit between coats. For primo results 2 coats of primer (sanded between) creates a base for the best finish. 

Gloss finishes will enhance every single tiny flaw ! Satin is the best choice. Flat or dull finishes show scuffs.  Satin can be buffed with a grey or white Scotch Brite pad to restore & clean up an abused finish. And trust me kitchen cabinets get abused !

[xxdabroxx]

Looks like I can't get the ML Campbell within 100 miles of my location but you set me on a better path @wdwerker 

I think the closest thing I'll be able to get locally is Sherwin Williams pre-cat epoxy. https://www.sherwin-williams.com/painting-contractors/products/pro-industrial-precatalyzed-water-based-epoxy

I'm going to go into the local SW store after work and see if they can get it.  Seems like not all locations stock it.  If I can't get that there is a Valspar or Behr pre cat epoxy I might try.  Doesn't seem to be easy to find a pre-cat lacquer around here, maybe it's a California thing?  Is a pre-cat lacquer any different that an epoxy?  I'd assume if it has a catalyst that it's similar. 

I'm thinking about buying this HVLP kit:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MY912YY/?coliid=I1NPYD21J58NAM&colid=3EOGTLCYACM8F&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

http://anestiwata.com/product/az3hv2/

It comes with 3 different needles, 1.3, 1.5, and 1.8mm.  I have an Iwata airbrush that is really nice so I'm hoping this will be decent quality.  It's a little on the cheap side though, I think this is their value line of sorts. 

[wdwerker]

Never heard of the finish or the gun. Looks like the gun runs off of compressed air. Definitely add a second water/ oil separator to spray. I ran mine on a 20 ft hose so the air can cool. Then I got a turbine and never looked back. 

[xxdabroxx]

1 hour ago, wdwerker said:

Never heard of the finish or the gun. Looks like the gun runs off of compressed air. Definitely add a second water/ oil separator to spray. I ran mine on a 20 ft hose so the air can cool. Then I got a turbine and never looked back. 

Will do, I've got a separator sitting in a box that I've never hooked up but I'll get it up and running before I spray this project.  I've got an upright Craftsman compressor that I've had for a while, it's only 120v but it should be big enough.  And I've got lots of air hose.

I wish there was a distributor closer for the paint you recommended.  I'll post results with whatever paint I come up with.  I looked up the spec sheet on the Sherwin Williams stuff and it seems pretty resistant to just about everything but a couple solvents.  Hopefully it finishes pretty hard.  They gave a pencil hardness rating but I'm not sure how that computes (2B), I'm guessing a 2B pencil wouldn't scratch the finish. 

[Tom King]

What Binks gun do you have?   They can be capable of good work, but you need plenty of clean air.  I used, and still have a couple that I used for a decade and a half, or so.  I still spray gelcoat with the little 15, just because I know that it can handle the cleaning needed.

If you have the right air supply (upright Craftsman compressor doesn't give much information-but only running on 120 tells me not likely to move enough air for very long), and a place where the overspray doesn't matter, or can be dealt with, there is no modern gun that can lay down a better quality finish, although plenty that can match it for a lot more money in setup.

I have an Iwata primer gun, and it works good enough for that, but it was a lot less money that the one in your link.  I doubt your compressor will move enough air to keep that gun going for very long.

[xxdabroxx]

18 minutes ago, Tom King said:

What Binks gun do you have?   They can be capable of good work, but you need plenty of clean air.  I used, and still have a couple that I used for a decade and a half, or so.  I still spray gelcoat with the little 15, just because I know that it can handle the cleaning needed.

If you have the right air supply (upright Craftsman compressor doesn't give much information-but only running on 120 tells me not likely to move enough air for very long), and a place where the overspray doesn't matter, or can be dealt with, there is no modern gun that can lay down a better quality finish, although plenty that can match it for a lot more money in setup.

I have an Iwata primer gun, and it works good enough for that, but it was a lot less money that the one in your link.  I doubt your compressor will move enough air to keep that gun going for very long.

It was my grandfather's Binks, not sure what model but I know my dad says that grandpa's had a bigger needle than his does.  I've used my dads quite a bit I'm guessing it has a 1.5ish needle in it.  Grandpa's was probably from the 60's or 70's but it still worked good into the 2000's when it was last used to paint my cousins El Camino.  I'm sure it is still in good shape.  I'll have to dig it out and give it a test. 

I figured I'd paint it outside over a drop cloth, overspray shouldn't be an issue.  I don't really want to mask off everything in my shop but I can if I have to.  I could also turn my carport into a paint booth if I need to.  I've done it to a garage before. 

I think you can get that same gun with a single tip for less but I like that it has the different sizes for different applications.  I won't always be spraying thick paint but saving money and using the old gun wouldn't be bad either.  I wouldn't be surprised if this is the same gun you have.  I think the kit comes with the AZ3HV2.  https://www.amazon.com/Iwata-IWA9231-Spray-AZ3HV2-15GC-Nozzle/dp/B003YHMNP6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1531257395&sr=8-2&keywords=iwata+az3hv2

I won't be trying to spray a whole kitchen at once so I think my little compressor will be OK.  it's not tiny but definitely not industrial either.  I figure I'd batch out the door faces then do the boxes in another batch to not cook the compressor.  Worst case I can haul the boxes to my dads to paint, he has a much larger compressor. 

 

Do you have any experience with the Sherwin Williams pre-cat epoxy @Tom King

[Tom King]

Try the gun you have before buying another one.  You can even try it just spraying your finish on cardboard.  One possible trouble may be that it has leather washers that might be dry rotted by now.  The gun number should be on it somewhere.  18 was the top of the line pro gun back then, but I used mine with a 5hp 2-stage compressor.   You can do some spraying with that gun, and your compressor, but you will probably have to wait for it to build up pressure at some points, which may not be the best points for stopping in the middle of a spray job.

I've sprayed some marine epoxy coatings, but never by SW.

[Woodenskye]

If you are going to SW then look into Kem Aqua or Kem Aqua +.  I know a couple of people on other sites that are pros and use exclusively.  Steve's recommendation is great, just another option to consider. 

[xxdabroxx]

13 hours ago, Woodenskye said:

If you are going to SW then look into Kem Aqua or Kem Aqua +.  I know a couple of people on other sites that are pros and use exclusively.  Steve's recommendation is great, just another option to consider. 

That looks better than the "Sher-Wood 275" white lacquer that they suggested at the store.  I noticed that the 275 said that yellowing over time was likely particularly when used in white.  The Kem Aqua Plus says that yellowing wasn't' an issue even with white.  I'll have to get a price on it but even if it costs more it's worth it to not have my cabinets yellow, especially in a cool toned room.  Thanks for the suggestions everyone.  I've got a little side job coming up so I still may get my HVLP gun referenced earlier, I doubt I'll have the money for a turbine but I may just look into a whole system.  Wow, I didn't realize how affordable these setups had gotten.  Seems like the last time I eyeballed one they were closer to $1k. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015RRLHZM/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B015RRLHZM&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=1713835751726239774&pf_rd_r=53XXC1A44SHR9977MCXG&pd_rd_wg=ePRQv&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&pd_rd_w=LBKJG&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pd_rd_r=98737556-8519-11e8-a101-fb9e1a980f76

[Chestnut]

I got my MM4 for $650. If you have some time to wait sales at Acme Tools like 1 item 15% or 20% sales apply to the Fuji systems. You might be able to snag the system for a good discount.

Also hopefully someone will correct me but i don't see a lot of value in that kit. The whip hose is $35, i don't have it and the rubber hose that comes with the unit seems flexible enough for me. The cleaning kit is $30, you can probably find something similar for less. I've ran my unit for 2 years and haven't needed to replace the air hose or cup gasket yet. The filters for the unit don't need to be replaced all that often if you make sure to place the turbine in a  spot it won't get sprayed or suck up a bunch of dust. I usually place mine around the corner or inside a door. The needle and cap sets are useful but you probably only need 2 total 1 for paint and 1 for clears. Pro's probably use a lot more but they put their equipment to work a lot more often and can afford all the different sizes.

Just my 2 cents.

[xxdabroxx]

5 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

I got my MM4 for $650. If you have some time to wait sales at Acme Tools like 1 item 15% or 20% sales apply to the Fuji systems. You might be able to snag the system for a good discount.

Also hopefully someone will correct me but i don't see a lot of value in that kit. The whip hose is $35, i don't have it and the rubber hose that comes with the unit seems flexible enough for me. The cleaning kit is $30, you can probably find something similar for less. I've ran my unit for 2 years and haven't needed to replace the air hose or cup gasket yet. The filters for the unit don't need to be replaced all that often if you make sure to place the turbine in a  spot it won't get sprayed or suck up a bunch of dust. I usually place mine around the corner or inside a door. The needle and cap sets are useful but you probably only need 2 total 1 for paint and 1 for clears. Pro's probably use a lot more but they put their equipment to work a lot more often and can afford all the different sizes.

Just my 2 cents.

I'm not sure that I really like the gun in that kit either, I was just surprised to see that they were less than a grand these days.  I did like that it came with additional needles though. 

I like the cup on this gun better.  https://www.amazon.com/Fuji-2803-T75G-Mini-Mite-PLATINUM-Gravity/dp/B00D4NPPO6/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1531323311&sr=8-6&keywords=hvlp+system

The interchangeable cup deal on the semi-pro seems a bit cobbled together to me.  Kinda weird how it has a gravity feed cup that feeds into a siphon cup location on the bottom of the gun.  I still need to do some research before I decide on a complete system but I'm keeping it open as an option.  It would be nice to have the endless air supply and I'm sure it would come in handy a lot in the future.  I hate to buy a bottom of the barrel setup only to be disappointed later and want to upgrade. 

[Chestnut]

6 hours ago, xxdabroxx said:

I'm not sure that I really like the gun in that kit either, I was just surprised to see that they were less than a grand these days.  I did like that it came with additional needles though. 

I like the cup on this gun better.  https://www.amazon.com/Fuji-2803-T75G-Mini-Mite-PLATINUM-Gravity/dp/B00D4NPPO6/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1531323311&sr=8-6&keywords=hvlp+system

The interchangeable cup deal on the semi-pro seems a bit cobbled together to me.  Kinda weird how it has a gravity feed cup that feeds into a siphon cup location on the bottom of the gun.  I still need to do some research before I decide on a complete system but I'm keeping it open as an option.  It would be nice to have the endless air supply and I'm sure it would come in handy a lot in the future.  I hate to buy a bottom of the barrel setup only to be disappointed later and want to upgrade. 

Just a heads up to watch acme tools the next 2 weeks for anniversary sales. Just got this in the mail today.