Please Help With Routing Interior Closet Doors

[TheWoodShouter]

Hey guys! I would like to replace two small closet bifold-sliding-track style doors with French style doors. This is just for a couple of painted interior closet doors, nothing too fancy, though I think I want something a little fancier than Shaker styled. I started looking into the process of making entry doors, and I quickly found the $200-$300 set of Freud entry door router bits and others, and for this project that's just way out of the budget. I'd be better off just buying new doors at the store for less than the router bits alone. I don't typically like to skimp on any tools or certainly router bits, in fact I try to always go with Whiteside router bits, which were suggested to me here on this forum years ago. But for this project, I am looking at getting an inexpensive entry door rail and stile bit set, something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/MEIGGTOOL-Router-Extended-Woodworking-Milling/dp/B08YYHD7NX/ref=sr_1_22_sspa?crid=BGJP2JSVJCBN&keywords=cabinet%2Bdoor%2Brouter%2Bbit%2Bset&qid=1690329093&sprefix=door%2Brouter%2Bbit%2Bset%2Caps%2C182&sr=8-22-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9tdGY&th=1

I know, cringe at the cheap, no doubt Asian-made router bits, but I think these will work to make two closet doors, at last I'm hoping ;-)

My questions would be: like others, this set comes with the "extended tenon bit", and I can see how having a longer tenon would add extra strength, especially if you were making a real exterior/interior front-of-your-house type door (which I'm not). But if you use that bit and extend the length of the tenon, how do you increase the size of the corresponding mortise or slot that accepts the longer tenon? Would you just cut this deeper using a dado stack at the table saw, or maybe a 1/2" straight router bit, just to increase the mortise depth the entry door bit set cut? I hope that makes sense.

And, I believe these router bit sets cut the rail and stile only. I can definitely go with flat panel doors to keep things simple, but if I wanted a raised panel door, how do you cut the raised panels? Is there a bit that cuts a raised panel for entry doors specifically? In my mind, I'm thinking if I get the thickness of the material just right, I can possibly use the extended tenon bit to cut the panel on the front side?? 

Lastly, what material would you guys suggest I use? I'd like to go cheap, and I do want them to be painted white to match other doors in our house, so fancy hardwood is unnecessary. I *think* you can use mdf for doors, but I'm not sure, and I don't get how you paint mdf; wouldn't the cut edge just soak up paint and need many, many coats of paint to look good? I was also thinking about using 2x Doug Fir material cleaned up and brought down to somewhere around 1.25" thick on the jointer and planer. Or, I could go for poplar that I can get for about $3.50/bf at my local hardwood shop. The poplar would be the most expensive, but wouldn't it resist long-term twisting better than Doug Fir and add some heft to the finished product, like mdf, but be much easier to paint than mdf?

I have a Milwaukee 2.25hp router with 1/2" collet and a router table. I've learned that you want to spin these bits at the router's lowest rpm, and I plan on making several passes, not trying to hog off the whole cut at once. What else do I need to know to cut doors? 

 Any and and all suggestions, hints, tips or tricks for how to make an interior closet door would be very much appreciated! Thank you in advance for your help!

-TWS

[Coop]

Can you bring up a pic of the door(s) you have in mind. I have an idea but want to make sure I’m on the same page.

[TheWoodShouter]

Quick update, I ordered the inexpensive router bits I linked above, not that I can't return them if I need to. But I am looking at the profiles, and I really think I can use the extended tenon bit to cut the front side of the raised door panel, leaving 1/2" of material around the edge of the panel to articulate with the mortise in the rails and stiles. Does this make sense to anyone but me or am I nuts? 

Thanks very much for your help, I really appreciate it!!!

-TWS

[TheWoodShouter]

On 7/25/2023 at 9:55 PM, Coop said:

Can you bring up a pic of the door(s) you have in mind. I have an idea but want to make sure I’m on the same page.

Wow, thank you for your fast reply! No, I really can't, only because I don't have any plans solidified, and I am totally open to suggestions on design. I could easily do a Shaker style something, but I'd really like to have something more like a raised panel door. I know there's tricks to cutting raised panels on the table saw and other ways to go about this, but I think I'd like to try these router bits, I'm just not 100% wrapping my head around the way they work. By all means, if you have a suggestion, please let me know.

Thank you very much for your time and consideration of my questions!

-TWS

[Coop]

First, and I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong, Shaker style doors are flat panels and not raised. Google Shaker style doors for some examples. You’re more likely to see cabinet doors but it will give you an idea. 

Two, how many panels are you thinking per door? If you are still thinking raised panels, they are simple to cut on the table saw. I think mdf is your friend on the panels, regardless. Yellow pine is more prevalent down here so I have no experience with the Douglas fir, but yes, I would use the poplar. 

[TheWoodShouter]

If it helps, the door openings I want to replace measure about 79.25"x24.25" and 79.25"x36". They are in a short hallway in  our modest home. Currently, they have a two part, bifold door where there's a track in the celling and floor. I have never liked these bifold/track doors, they never last, and in my experience they always sag and pop off the track in time. What I would like is to build French styled doors, meaning that I still want each opening to have two half doors (because this is a hallway, and I don't want a fully opening door, which would block the whole hallway), but each half door would be hinged on the left or right side of the opening, and the door would open from the middle. Man, if I knew how to post a pic, I could have saved a paragraph of typing lol! But I hope that made sense, I'm hoping you guys get what I'm going for here. The final style of doors is definitely open to suggestion/debate. I could seriously just do Shaker style doors on the table saw and be fine with it, but if I could get a raised panel door with these router table bits, I think that's what I prefer. 

As always, thank you for your help with my project!

-TWS

[TheWoodShouter]

On 7/25/2023 at 10:19 PM, Coop said:

First, and I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong, Shaker style doors are flat panels and not raised. Google Shaker style doors for some examples. You’re more likely to see cabinet doors but it will give you an idea. 

Two, how many panels are you thinking per door? If you are still thinking raised panels, they are simple to cut on the table saw. I think mdf is your friend on the panels, regardless. Yellow pine is more prevalent down here so I have no experience with the Douglas fir, but yes, I would use the poplar. 

Yes, when I say Shaker style I very much mean flat panel doors. I am saying I *could* go Shaker style to save some of this heartache, but ideally I'd prefer a raised panel door, if I can do it with some inexpensive router bits, and my maybe intermediate skill set. 

And I get that I can cut raised panel doors on a table saw, but I was kind if hoping to get a little better results with the cheap router bit set, at least for the stiles and rails. 

Coop, you have helped me in the past, and I certainly appreciate your help now. Please let me know if you have any further suggestions.

-TWS

[wtnhighlander]

As these are light-duty doors, and will be painted, there are several options that could provide raised panels using only the tablesaw. 

Even if you choose to use your profiled router bits, I would still keep them simple rail & stile frames, with no extended tenon to complicate things. Essentially a profiked tongue & groove joint. MDF (or even plywood) panels can be glued in, making up for any strength lost from not including the extended tenon. You can also create a 'loose bridle joint' by routing a deep slot across the rail to stile joint at top and bottom, after assembly, then gluing in a rectangle of wood, with grain oriented across the joint. Paint makes it all look the same.

[TheWoodShouter]

On 7/25/2023 at 10:44 PM, wtnhighlander said:

As these are light-duty doors, and will be painted, there are several options that could provide raised panels using only the tablesaw. 

Even if you choose to use your profiled router bits, I would still keep them simple rail & stile frames, with no extended tenon to complicate things. Essentially a profiked tongue & groove joint. MDF (or even plywood) panels can be glued in, making up for any strength lost from not including the extended tenon. You can also create a 'loose bridle joint' by routing a deep slot across the rail to stile joint at top and bottom, after assembly, then gluing in a rectangle of wood, with grain oriented across the joint. Paint makes it all look the same.

Thank you, that was very helpful! At this time I am just making light-duty closet doors as you mentioned. I guess my question about the depth of the mortise was if I was really making a "real" 1.75" thick hardwood exterior facing door, but I'm not. I'm now thinking I can just use the bits as is without the extended tenon bit.

If I want a raised panel for something like this where the rail/stile material will be a good 1.25"-1.75" thick, is the consensus that this is best cut on the table saw, rather than with a router bit? 

edit: if I use mdf, am I wrong to think it's difficult to paint? Doesn't the cut edge just sponge paint, and need a lot of coats to look good? mdf would be very dense, stable, and cheap for my project if I can use it. 

Thank you very much for your help!

-TWS

[Coop]

I know just enough about shellac to get me in trouble and maybe you too! But, I think if you put a thin layer of dewaxed shellac over the entire door prior to painting, it should give you an even finish on the beveled cuts of the mdf. Again, how many panels per door do you anticipate? 

[Coop]

Thisis is what I was going to suggest if you were to use flat panels.  Use 1/4”mdf instead of the glass. Cut a rabbet on the back side of your rails and stiles and a filler strip on the backside to incase the panels.

[wtnhighlander]

As @Coop says, a seal coat of shellac, or maybe a shellac-based primer, will take care of the MDF absorbancy. Whatever you use to form the raised panel edges in MDF needs sharp cutters to avoid a lot of sanding. Also note that Bondo is great for patching gouges or chips in MDF going under paint.

[TheWoodShouter]

Hey guys! Thanks again for the help! @Coop That's a great looking door, I'd be very happy with something like that for sure. I did order that door router bit set, but I can certainly send them back if I go another way. I need to see if I can even find 1/4" mdf, might sound strange, but all I typically see at my big box store is 3/4", but I'll double check. Or I could use 1/4" plywood too. 

And it's sounding like if I use mdf there may be a shellac or primer that would more or less seal the mdf for paint?

Thank again guys!

-TWS

[TheWoodShouter]

Just a follow up: I have those router bits ordered and they should be here Friday, I am hoping to get a chance to try them out this weekend on some scrap material, time permitting. 

My local big orange box store does stock 1/4" mdf, but only in 2'x4' quarters, not full 4'x8' sheets, which is why I guess I never noticed them while shopping at the store.

I did do a little research into painting mdf, and it does seem like you need a sealer that is not water based to seal the cut or routed edge of the mdf. So shellac, etc. And according to BobVilla.com, you can can use your finger to literally smear a layer of drywall compound over the cut edge, then sand it smooth. Please see this link, step #2 specifically, for Bob Villa's ghost writer's take on this:

https://www.bobvila.com/articles/how-to-paint-mdf/

This is a lot like when @wtnhighlandermentioned using Bondo fiberglass filler, but it just so happens I am sitting on a small tub of premixed drywall mud, so using mdf is starting to make more sense for this project.

My plan right now is to see what these router bits can do. Hopefully I can use them to make the stiles and rails. I am thinking of using either poplar or possibly laminating 2 sheets of 3/4" mdf for a final thickness of 1.5" for the stiles and rails. Then, either using 3/4" mdf to create raised panels on the table saw, or using 1/4"-1/5" flat panels, either mdf or plywood. I think this might work, I will update after I get a chance to try to router bits out.

As always, any comments or suggestions would be appreciated! 

Thanks again guys!

-TWS

[Coop]

Mdf is pretty darn heavy. I would definitely go with poplar for the rails and stiles. Less work and less weight and probably just pennies more. 

[TheWoodShouter]

On 7/27/2023 at 12:04 AM, Coop said:

Mdf is pretty darn heavy. I would definitely go with poplar for the rails and stiles. Less work and less weight and probably just pennies more. 

Thank you again! The router bit set is delayed until tomorrow, and we have a few projects going on, but when I get the bits and some time I will make some test cuts. You're right, the mdf may be too heavy for the rails and stiles. My local hardwood store has poplar for give or take about $3.50/bf, and they stock it in 4/4, 6/4, and 8/4.

I'm still finalizing my plans, but I'll know more after I get the router bits.

Thank you very much for your help!

-TWS