TheCIGL Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Hello guys, I´m new to this forum so I´m still learning how to move around! I have a question, I just finised setting up my new shop, its relatively small. Its a 16 feet by 16 feet room. I´m thinking about making my own cyclone system to use in my miter saw, table saw, router, and an extra outlet on the floor for sweeping (4 total). What are your suggestions about this? *would a 4.5 HP "Shop Vac" be enough *the size of the cyclone *pipe diameter *etc... thanks in advance guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SawSucker Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Here is a great resource for dust collection useing a ShopVac or a DC. Thien Dust Collection Site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCIGL Posted April 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Here is a great resource for dust collection useing a ShopVac or a DC. Thien Dust Collection Site WOW! awesome, it has everything I needed to know! and sorry for posting about this topic again, I see this has been asked before! newbie XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Hello guys, I´m new to this forum so I´m still learning how to move around! I have a question, I just finised setting up my new shop, its relatively small. Its a 16 feet by 16 feet room. I´m thinking about making my own cyclone system to use in my miter saw, table saw, router, and an extra outlet on the floor for sweeping (4 total). What are your suggestions about this? *would a 4.5 HP "Shop Vac" be enough *the size of the cyclone *pipe diameter *etc... thanks in advance guys! 4.5HP will be overkill. I have a 3HP Baldor for a 30x40 shop. I can easily collect from two sources if I ever wanted. I go from 8" rather quickly to 6" and just before any machine down to 4". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 4.5HP will be overkill. Probably not. Charles was talking about a shop vac, which probably means the HP rating is some "peak" figure that relates more to some marketeer's fantasy than it does to the actual power of the unit. Charles, how much current (how many amps) does your shop vac draw, and does it run on 110 volts or 220? From that we can get an idea how powerful it is. For the record, I'll add my vote for the Thein setup. I use one with a shop vac and it works great. -- Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Sorry Charles. I though you were talking a DC unit. What Russ said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCIGL Posted May 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Probably not. Charles was talking about a shop vac, which probably means the HP rating is some "peak" figure that relates more to some marketeer's fantasy than it does to the actual power of the unit. Charles, how much current (how many amps) does your shop vac draw, and does it run on 110 volts or 220? From that we can get an idea how powerful it is. For the record, I'll add my vote for the Thein setup. I use one with a shop vac and it works great. -- Russ Yes I´m thinking Thien System as well! It´s really easy to make, cheap, and very efficient! I haven´t decided which Shop Vac yet! Yesterday I went to Costco and found this two: Shop-Vac Stainless 5 gal. “4.5 Peak HP“ Air Flow: 150 (CFM) Sealed Pressure: 57 (inches) Electrical Ratings: 120V 60Hz 9Amps Peak Air Watts: 285 Shop-Vac Stainless 12 gal. “6 Peak HP“ Air Flow: 200 (CFM) Sealed Pressure: 60 (inches) Electrical Ratings: 120V 60Hz 11.8Amps Peak Air Watts: 350 What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 If you haven't purchased a shop vac yet, I would consider a small dust collector. If price is the bigger concern, check out the harbor freight 2hp dust collector, it is under $200 and is actually a very good dust collector. The reason being is that the shop vac isn't made for the volume of dust and chippings that can come from a power tool. For about a year I used my shop vac with my 12" planer. The shop vac finally died on me as it was over powered by the planer. Also it is a matter of capacity. My old shop vac was a 12 gallon as well. You will be amazed at how quickly it fills up, and a shop vac packed with saw dust is not the easiest thing to clean out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 I agree with MikeM. Also, a shopvac works much better if you get a filter bag for it. I like to use a filter bag plus a hepa filter, but no matter what kind of filter you use, a filter bag will reduce filter clogging, improve performance, and make it much easier to empty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCIGL Posted May 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 If you haven't purchased a shop vac yet, I would consider a small dust collector. If price is the bigger concern, check out the harbor freight 2hp dust collector, it is under $200 and is actually a very good dust collector. The reason being is that the shop vac isn't made for the volume of dust and chippings that can come from a power tool. For about a year I used my shop vac with my 12" planer. The shop vac finally died on me as it was over powered by the planer. Also it is a matter of capacity. My old shop vac was a 12 gallon as well. You will be amazed at how quickly it fills up, and a shop vac packed with saw dust is not the easiest thing to clean out. yeah, I get what you are saying, but I´m going to install either a Cyclone or a Thien Cyclone to collect the dust before it gets to the Shop-Vac so all I need is a decent motor with enough CFM that can suck what comes out of the machines and what´s in the floor without having to worry about filters and capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 @Charles: Thanks for the specs on the shop vacs. The current ratings that they give could mean any number of different things, but IF they're talking about the current that's actually drawn when the shop vac is in use, then here's how to calculate the input power to the motor. I'll use the first vac as an example: The input power to the motor is 120 volts x 9 amps = 1080 watts Then, since 1 HP is equivalent to 746 watts: 1080 watts = 1080 / 746 = 1.45 horsepower Now the power actually delivered by the motor to the impeller is somewhat less than this, depending on the motor's efficiency. If we assume that the motor is 80% efficient, then the power delivered to the impeller is 1080 x .8 = 864 watts, or 1.45 x .8 = 1.16 horsepower. Finally, the power that ends up actually moving the air depends on the efficiency of the impeller assembly. I don't have a feeling for the actual numbers here, but it's a sure bet that the impeller's efficiency is less than 100%. So the amount of power being delivered to the air by the impeller is sure to be even less than the power delivered by the motor to the impeller. There really are too many ifs and assumptions here to put much faith in the results of these calculations. The point is more to illustrate these two ideas: 1. It's reasonable gauge the relative power of two different vacs by comparing their amperage ratings. 2. The "peak HP" numbers that these clowns publish are crazy at best. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I also agree with MikeM that the HF dust collector might be a better bet than a shop vac. It's worth pointing out, though, that if you do choose a shop vac, the issues of capacity and filter clogging and the need for a filter bag all go away if you put a Thein separator ahead of the vac. -- Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCIGL Posted May 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Thank you Russ for this really valuable input and everyone who has posted I really appreciate it, with this numbers Russ gave me, I should probably start thinking on getting a rather small DC as MikeM said and not worry about the IFS with the Shop Vacs! Charles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Charles, If you haven't seen it already, be sure to read this thread: -- Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SawSucker Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Thank you Russ for this really valuable input and everyone who has posted I really appreciate it, with this numbers Russ gave me, I should probably start thinking on getting a rather small DC as MikeM said and not worry about the IFS with the Shop Vacs! Charles My thoughts are that if your useing a benchtop or a Jobsite table saw, a ShopVac is probably ok. But if your useing a Contractor's saw, or a Cabinet saw, a ShopVac isn't going to draw enough CFM's to do a good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCIGL Posted May 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Charles, If you haven't seen it already, be sure to read this thread: -- Russ Alright, that explains it all much better! Thanks Russ, I thing I´m going to go for #4 Check out this video if you haven´t already. I found it today and I think its awesome! What kind of DC do you currently use for your own shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 What kind of DC do you currently use for your own shop? I have a shop vac (6.5 peak HP!!!) with a Thein separator made from a 20 gallon metal trash can. My separator has a side inlet instead of the elbow coming down from the top, and I mounted the baffle to the sides of the can rather than suspending it from the lid. You can't see it in the picture, but I also have an inch-wide circular plywood rib jammed into the trash can about halfway down. That keeps the vacuum from collapsing the metal can. This setup works great with my 12" lunchbox planer, with my table saw, and for general cleaning up. It's worth noting, however, that my table saw (an old Inca cabinet saw) has an extremely well designed shroud around the blade. I suspect that's a big part of the reason I've been able to get away with using the shop vac instead of something with a little more power. I keep telling myself that someday I want to set up something more like this, but my current setup works well enough that an upgrade is not really very high on the list. -- Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCIGL Posted May 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Nicely achieved Russ, thanks for all the info. and I´ll keep you posted when I decide what way to go! cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmason Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 I have a shop vac (6.5 peak HP!!!) with a Thein separator made from a 20 gallon metal trash can. My separator has a side inlet instead of the elbow coming down from the top, and I mounted the baffle to the sides of the can rather than suspending it from the lid. You can't see it in the picture, but I also have an inch-wide circular plywood rib jammed into the trash can about halfway down. That keeps the vacuum from collapsing the metal can. This setup works great with my 12" lunchbox planer, with my table saw, and for general cleaning up. It's worth noting, however, that my table saw (an old Inca cabinet saw) has an extremely well designed shroud around the blade. I suspect that's a big part of the reason I've been able to get away with using the shop vac instead of something with a little more power. I keep telling myself that someday I want to set up something more like this, but my current setup works well enough that an upgrade is not really very high on the list. -- Russ How do you empty the barrel w/ the baffle attached to the can? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 How do you empty the barrel w/ the baffle attached to the can? I remove three screws and take the baffle out. For as often as I need to empty the can, it's not a big deal. A better solution might be to replace the screws with magnets. Or maybe even just attach a weight to the bottom side of the baffle to hold it down. All you need is something to keep it from moving around and/or getting sucked up against the outlet tube. -- Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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