What would you like to know about building a shop?

[tim0625]

I have lots of questions, but this one is the foremost. Will I ever be done with my shop remodel?

Negative ghost rider...a shop is like the hairline, waistline, or a "wife line"....that's the line you often find yourself already crossed and you're standing in a minefield before you even know it.....with a shop, the one thing there is not is a finish line. Heck, I enjoy working on my shop as much as I enjoy building things in it!! Enjoy the ride!!

[Bobby Slack]

Lighting ... I made a choice not to use diifusers ... guess I should use them eh?

[Vic]

Lighting ... I made a choice not to use diifusers ... guess I should use them eh?

Bobby, depending on the fixture you have, if you don't mind keeping the lamps clean, you'll probably get more lumens at the work. I just like that I don't have to clean lamps. Not yet, at least, and it's been about 6 years since the lights have been in.

[Bobby Slack]

Vic .. aha .. aha ... this is an aha moment, now I get it. Not having the cover forces to clean the tubes. So far they look pretty clean.

Thank you

Bobby, depending on the fixture you have, if you don't mind keeping the lamps clean, you'll probably get more lumens at the work. I just like that I don't have to clean lamps. Not yet, at least, and it's been about 6 years since the lights have been in.

[Vic]

Vic .. aha .. aha ... this is an aha moment, now I get it. Not having the cover forces to clean the tubes. So far they look pretty clean.

Thank you

It also allows more light out of the fixture. Depending on the design of the fixture, it can be a major or very minor benefit. I like to keep my diffusers in place to both protect against accidental breakage and dust. The diffuser also helps mitigate any glare the lamps would put off. I pay for that in a lot of light that never escapes the fixture. My favorite fixture is a 60/40 fixture with a highly reflective ceiling. The best design of those give a lot of great and very even lighting. 60/40 refers to how much down/up light.

[Trip]

==> I have the plastic diffuser

+1. use the diffusers -- they are lots of reasons why. the only reason not to is $$. penny wise...

[tim0625]

Vic,

I've been given some old fixtures that came out of a building upgrade - 48", 4 tube....There are enough fixtures to more than adequately light my shop bright enough for the aging eyes. Is the process as simple as using these fixtures and upgrading the bulbs or do I need new fixtures to maximize efficiency and functionality? I've replaced the bulbs with Sylvania 4100K Cool White T12 bulbs.

Thanks

Tim

[Vic]

Vic,

I've been given some old fixtures that came out of a building upgrade - 48", 4 tube....There are enough fixtures to more than adequately light my shop bright enough for the aging eyes. Is the process as simple as using these fixtures and upgrading the bulbs or do I need new fixtures to maximize efficiency and functionality? I've replaced the bulbs with Sylvania 4100K Cool White T12 bulbs.

Thanks

Tim

Have you already wired and installed them? Sounds like you have. The question I would've had is if the ballast will work. Many times, the ballast won't be multi volt, so won't work on 120. If they aren't multi-volt, there's a good chance you can't use without replacing the ballasts. If that is the case, I would have had you check into the cost of new fixtures vs. new ballast T8 ballasts and T8 lamps. With the new efficacy laws, the loopholes allow 40W T12 lamps. The 34W are going away.

As far as efficiency, I would check the ballasts to see if they say if they are magnetic ballasts. Those are the worst for energy consumption, because they draw power even when they are "off".

[rodger.]

I installed some T8 fixtures, and now my shop radio gets "static" when I turn them on. Is this interference from the ballasts?

[Vic]

I installed some T8 fixtures, and now my shop radio gets "static" when I turn them on. Is this interference from the ballasts?

If you got good ballasts with <10% harmonic distortion, you shouldn't have problems. But, yes poor ballasts can cause harmonic distortion, which is problematic for any solid state equipment, as well as your motors. Motors will be the first thing to absorb the 5th and 7th harmonic, which makes them run hotter and more inefficiently. I'll email an article I have at work to my home and post a link. It's really about variable feed drives and the harmonic problems they can cause without proper mitigation, but it does give insight.

[rodger.]

If you got good ballasts with <10% harmonic distortion, you shouldn't have problems. But, yes poor ballasts can cause harmonic distortion, which is problematic for any solid state equipment, as well as your motors. Motors will be the first thing to absorb the 5th and 7th harmonic, which makes them run hotter and more inefficiently. I'll email an article I have at work to my home and post a link. It's really about variable feed drives and the harmonic problems they can cause without proper mitigation, but it does give insight.

That's crazy. I wish I had known that before I installed them.

[Vic]

Most T8 ballasts shouldn't be a problem. I'll check with some electricians and see what they think may be happening. Meanwhile, if you could get me the make and model of the ballasts you have, I'll check out the specs on them.

(null)

[Vic]

Also, harmonics are cumulative. It's why when I deal with variable feed drives, they need to meet IEEE519 standards for the line loads they're going to be on. Once there is a harmonic problem, it's hard to pinpoint what is causing it.

[jab73180]

What is the cost difference between spray foam and fiberglass?

[Vic]

It's pretty huge. I would recommend blown in cellulose. You will have to also do air sealing separately. I paid about $7000 for the walls in my 30x40x10 foot shop. I also spray 18" in on the soffits to make up for the fact I did not use a raised heal truss. I have R49 cellulose in the attic.

(null)

[rodger.]

Also, harmonics are cumulative. It's why when I deal with variable feed drives, they need to meet IEEE519 standards for the line loads they're going to be on. Once there is a harmonic problem, it's hard to pinpoint what is causing it.

It seems that I can adjust the station knob and eliminate most the static. Here are the fixtures. I installed 2 of them

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/96-in-t8-double-strip-tandem-light/972616#BVRRWidgetID

[Vic]

I'm glad that was the problem. I didn't think it coul actually be the ballasts from newer T8, even of they weren't the high performance. I can't tell what you have from the fixture spec sheet. The specs I look for have info about the lamps/ballasts. Ex. CRI, Initial Lumens, Mean Lumens, Input Watts, Power Factor, THD.

[Bachambers]

I have a question reference insulation for a detached garage roof/ceiling for a 1200 sq ft garage. When I purchased the property the garage had insulation stapled to roof rafters with no ceiling, which over time has been falling down due to the paper getting wet and brittle from a leaky roof before I bought the property. I put an attic for storage over 1/4 of the garage and have decided to extend the attic and put up a ceiling across the entire garage so that I'm not heating and cooling the rafters.

So my question is where and how I should insulate, since I still plan to use at least part of the attic for storage. I had planned to put insulation in the ceiling, but that only gives me R-19, which isn't enough for Iowa's harsh winters. I can stack insulation where I'm not using the attic for storage, such as over the shop half of the garage, but isn't the insulation only as good as the weakest link? Should I put insulation in both the ceiling and rafters for a total of R-38? I'm heating the garage with a gas 75k hanging heater which heats the garage fine even without the ceiling in yet, but obviously I want to minimize how much the heater is running.

[Vic]

BA, I sent this to myself and will answer this evening. But, you are talking about how to define the building envelope. Decisions.

[jHop]

I have a partial answer, from some time spent insulating my father in law's home. His attic did not have insulation in more than 1/5 of the roof, and there were a couple of leaks present. I was advised to not put a vapor barrier up before putting up the insulation. I did get a lot of the insulation with the integral vapor barrier/ retarder in the paper layer. I was also told to put another layer over the insulation after it was installed, either as a vapor barrier plastic or drywall. This completely ignored the fact that the floor of the attic had no insulation in it at all. (This was part of the reason why I started the project in the first place.)

But this space already had the floor extending the entire distance of the footprint, and effectively lowered the loss of heat through the massive amount of open space and air circulation.

At the time I was looking for insulation batts, I was not able to get R 38 in one roll. I only ended up with (if I remember right) R19, due to the sizes of the rafters. I was looking for one product to get me that R 38, and could not find it. But I was looking into stacking multiple forms of insulation to come up with that; ultimately I decided the cost was not worth doing. (The fact I was not being reimbursed for this played into it, since it was not my house. I also do not have hard financial data on how much savings were created by insulating, as my father in law does not like to share how much he spends on his gas bill each month. All I know is that it was high, and it is not as high now.)

[Vic]

I have a question reference insulation for a detached garage roof/ceiling for a 1200 sq ft garage. When I purchased the property the garage had insulation stapled to roof rafters with no ceiling, which over time has been falling down due to the paper getting wet and brittle from a leaky roof before I bought the property. I put an attic for storage over 1/4 of the garage and have decided to extend the attic and put up a ceiling across the entire garage so that I'm not heating and cooling the rafters.

So my question is where and how I should insulate, since I still plan to use at least part of the attic for storage. I had planned to put insulation in the ceiling, but that only gives me R-19, which isn't enough for Iowa's harsh winters. I can stack insulation where I'm not using the attic for storage, such as over the shop half of the garage, but isn't the insulation only as good as the weakest link? Should I put insulation in both the ceiling and rafters for a total of R-38? I'm heating the garage with a gas 75k hanging heater which heats the garage fine even without the ceiling in yet, but obviously I want to minimize how much the heater is running.

The big question is what will be your building envelope. If you will have an attic stair case with a lid, then the envelope will be drawn at the ceiling of your shop. If this is the case, you will be tasked with pulling up the flooring of the attic that has been storage, thus far. To get R38, you'll need to do something other than fiberglass there. I would recommend a rigid insulation like poly-iso board, or even just regular blueboard. You'd have to cut to fit between the rafter/joists. I would cut a bit smaller than needed and foam into place. The rest of the area can be fiberglass, if the initial cost is the initial criteria. If not, I would hire someone to come in and spray loose fill cellulose. Either way, you'll have to create a "dam" around the storage space in the attic. If you want to include the attic into the envelope, then the roof line becomes the barrier. In that case, you'll need to run a continuous air space from the eaves (you need to have eave and ridge vents for this scenario) to the ridge vent. Then install the insulation against that. I would also either install 4 to 6 mil plastic sheeting over the top, or better yet, sheet rock that is at least fire taped. But, you are correct that doing only part would be a waste of money. Also, pay very close attention to all breaks in the envelope and seal it the very best you can. Small gaps add up quickly and that is where all the heat will escape most readily. If you want to discuss in more depth, feel free to PM me and we can set up a call. This information is based on only the information in your post and I usually find there are other considerations while doing a in person or phone interview.

[AndyF]

Hi Vic,

I'm setting up my shop in a 450 sq ft sealed off section of my basement. I'd like to install some type of fan with an external vent to create a slight amount of negative pressure in the shop so that little dust escapes into the rest of the house, and to supply the shop with some dust-free air from the rest of the house. Do you have any suggestions for how to accomplish this?

Details:

• Basement is unfinished, but I'm building a wall to separate the shop from the rest of the basement.
  
• no open HVAC supply or return ducts in this section
  
• one small tilt-out window
  
• This is a new build house which was EnergyStar tested and certified, so it's probably fairly well sealed.
  
• The gas hot water heater and furnace are in another section of the basement, but they are both direct vent rather than having a flue.
  
• The furnace is high efficiency, with intake air drawn from one of those combination intake/exhaust vents in the wall.
  
• The house has 3 large Broan bath ventilation fans, and 1 externally-vented range fan.
  

[Vic]

It sounds like all your combustion appliances are directly vented. Panasonic make a reeally great bathroom fan. I can get the specific model information, if you need it. When you build your wall to separate space, be sure to seal it well. In a well sealed house, which yours should be, due to its ES certification, a bath fan vented to the outside should be plenty to create the negative pressure you're looking for without causing a whole house problem.

Playing with pressure balances can sometimes create problems. If you have a utility that can assist you in assessment, that would be best.

You may have to adjust the undercut of you basement access door. How will the space be heated? Do you have registers in the space you'll be closing? Depending on the balance of your heating system in regard to your ductwork, you may have to make other adjustments. Access to a flow hood would be handy. Also, see if you can get your blower door test numbers. That will help you hit the best CFM numbers.

[AndyF]

Thanks! I'll see if there are any utilities who might advise on the pressure balances.

I think the basement door has a pretty good undercut of at least 1 inch above the carpet, maybe more. I'll measure tonight.

There is a large HVAC supply trunk running through the shop space, but no registers. There is one register cut into it just before it reaches the shop section. I was hoping to avoid running any air ducts to the shop and just rely on conductive heating and cooling from the rest of the house. Does it even make sense to do that? Maybe I could put the shop ventilation fan on one of those switches which turns on randomly to keep it somewhat ventilated/conditioned when the shop isn't in use? (builder installed one of those in upstairs hall bath as part of the ES cert).

Edit: This looks like a good fan possibility:

Panasonic Inline Ventilation Fan FV-30NLF1

340 CFM

98.2 Watts

3.5 CFM/Watt

1.7 sones

Edited October 30, 2012 by AndyF

[Vic]

Andy, I think that is the fan. While it's not conduction, rather convective, yes, I think having the fan going to the exterior should help pull heat from the heated portion of the house. Heat will move to cold in any case. That's the big thing that all the energy efficiency measures is trying to mitigate. More accurately, they are in place to allow that movement in a controlled way. Once the fan is in place, grab an incense stick and check if there is the correct movement of air you're looking from coming from under the door to the main area of the house. Do that with the furnace on and off. Also, try to make note of how or if it affects the comfort of other rooms. I don't think it will anymore than having the regular bath fan on. Congrats on the new shop space!!!