What would you like to know about building a shop?


Vic

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The big question is what will be your building envelope. If you will have an attic stair case with a lid, then the envelope will be drawn at the ceiling of your shop. If this is the case, you will be tasked with pulling up the flooring of the attic that has been storage, thus far. To get R38, you'll need to do something other than fiberglass there. I would recommend a rigid insulation like poly-iso board, or even just regular blueboard. You'd have to cut to fit between the rafter/joists. I would cut a bit smaller than needed and foam into place. The rest of the area can be fiberglass, if the initial cost is the initial criteria. If not, I would hire someone to come in and spray loose fill cellulose. Either way, you'll have to create a "dam" around the storage space in the attic. If you want to include the attic into the envelope, then the roof line becomes the barrier. In that case, you'll need to run a continuous air space from the eaves (you need to have eave and ridge vents for this scenario) to the ridge vent. Then install the insulation against that. I would also either install 4 to 6 mil plastic sheeting over the top, or better yet, sheet rock that is at least fire taped. But, you are correct that doing only part would be a waste of money. Also, pay very close attention to all breaks in the envelope and seal it the very best you can. Small gaps add up quickly and that is where all the heat will escape most readily. If you want to discuss in more depth, feel free to PM me and we can set up a call. This information is based on only the information in your post and I usually find there are other considerations while doing a in person or phone interview.

Thanks Vic! That answered my question and looks like may save me some money from the direction that I was going. I'm going to put up the drywall on the ceiling, then blow in cellulose insulation over the shop portion of the garage to at aleast R38. The one car stall that has the attic I'm going to take your suggestion with the foam board and foam, which should be easy since I don't have the ceiling up yet. Thanks again!

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I find the process of re-organizing very challenging when all the machines are in the shop. That is my biggest challenge right now. My best move was to fold my Festool tables (2 out of 2) which opened floorspace. Next was to put all my systainers on carts with casters.

The idea is to build some cabinets on casters so I can have a solid cart that can move my Festool boxes. I want this cabinet to be tall enough to fit in my trailer so when I move the shop to Colroado, the cabinets go with me. Probably this will be modular so I can stack a cabinet on top of anohter cabinet and make these taller.

This will open even more floorspace.

The process ... is

Next get rid of my bad old workbench and make a new one, smaller and heavier. Will not be a fancy one and will have the required mass so I can use handplanes ...

That is it. The plan is how to get things in a smaller footprint.

Then ... Insulate walls, cieling, etc.

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Hey Vic,

I'm painting my shop's concrete floor as part of my shop remodel with 2 part epoxy paint comprising two pack epoxy floor sealer (first coat) followed by two pack epoxy floor paint (top coat). The floor will be diamond ground before applying to create a good key for the sealer and also to level out a few humps and bumps.

Can you recommend something that I could put onto the top coat while it's drying to create a non slip finish?

Terry

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Hey Vic,

I'm painting my shop's concrete floor as part of my shop remodel with 2 part epoxy paint comprising two pack epoxy floor sealer (first coat) followed by two pack epoxy floor paint (top coat). The floor will be diamond ground before applying to create a good key for the sealer and also to level out a few humps and bumps.

Can you recommend something that I could put onto the top coat while it's drying to create a non slip finish?

Terry

Hope that Vic doesn't mind me sticking my oar in his thread, but If it's like the two part epoxy I put on my floor, it came with little colored chips that you scattered on top of the epoxy coat. I haven't noticed a slipping problem, even when there's a layer of sawdust on it. I expect that sand might achieve the same purpose.

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Hey Vic,

I'm painting my shop's concrete floor as part of my shop remodel with 2 part epoxy paint comprising two pack epoxy floor sealer (first coat) followed by two pack epoxy floor paint (top coat). The floor will be diamond ground before applying to create a good key for the sealer and also to level out a few humps and bumps.

Can you recommend something that I could put onto the top coat while it's drying to create a non slip finish?

Terry

Terry,

My main reason for creating this thread was to advise on energy efficiency and what I know about best practices in building. There are roofers, HVAC, and several other guys that specialize in other aspects of the building trade. Although I have building experience, it's never been my main source of income. I got my building experience working for a friend who was a general contractor when I needed extra money and I study building science on a regular basis as part of my job as an energy efficiency consultant. I do, however, have a vast amount of knowledge to draw upon in most of the trades, when someone here doesn't have an answer handy.

Vic

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Vic, one thing you may be able to advise on is my builder is installing some insulation into the roof of my free standing garage shop at the moment. He has specified a 50mm thick rigid closed cell Rigid Polyurethane Foam called XtraTherm Thin-R Pitched Roof [XT/PR] . It has a very low Lambda Value as low as 0.022 W/mK. I looked it up to see what the figures meant and think I understand it.

The roof itself is a plastic coated steel profiled roof with a anti condensation layer applied underneath. He is installing the foam as per my specifications between the roof trusses to maximize the roof space for storage etc. This will then be covered in with drywall. The lower chord of the trusses will still be visible. post-3084-0-38593100-1352111716_thumb.jp

What I need to know do you think one layer of foam enough for a shop?

FYI summer temperatures in the UK are quite temperate are only around 28-30C (80-85F) (of course there are occasional spikes up to high 90s) and winter goes down to no less than about -10C (14F).

I will be heating the shop with a portable propane heater or electric radiant heater.

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I read this PDF http://www.xtratherm.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Xtra_IAB_03_0183_Pitched_Roof.pdf and it looks like a good product. I'm not sure how it translates into our R or U values, in terms of thermal resistance. That's something I'd have to research further. But, I would want a R38. Other than that, as long as your contractor follows the specs found in the PDF, it looks like it will perform well.

A word of caution on the propane heater. Get a CO detector, as those things aren't direct vented and mind the build up of moisture from the CO. Rust, etc. I'm not a fan of using non-vented combustion appliances inside.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have three rows of cleats around my shop. The bottom one is roughly 32" off the floor, the middle one 64" off the floor, and the top one about 3" below the ceiling. If I had it to do over, I would make the top one just a little bit lower, and I would think seriously about eliminating the bottom row altogether. The bottom row is useful where it's exposed, but a lot of it is unused because it's hidden behind various pieces of shop furniture.

Here's a link to another guy's opinion. My ceilings aren't as high as his, so I never considered a fourth row.

http://web.archive.org/web/20101011050153/http://benchmark.20m.com/plans/FrenchCleat.pdf

-- Russ

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I have one French cleat that is 76 1/2" high at the bottom and is 4" tall. That gives me two screws that are 16 o.c. It wraps about half my shop. I also have my desk and drawing table on a French cleat. I can always add more short strips below the top one as needed. It's a great way to organize. Everything is easily moved.

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  • 1 month later...

Vic,

I would like to put a heat source in my small 1.5 stall garage shop. My options I am considering are below

  • Natural gas heater (vented)
  • Natural gas heater (non vented)
  • Wood Stove

    NG (Vented)

    The NG heater (vented model) was quoted to get installed for $1700. This includes all materials and labor. I cannot seem to bite this bullet. I would like to install this unit myself. The only thing I would think would be difficult would be tapping off of the patio supply (grill and gas lantern), which I am thinking of hiring them just to stub it in for me. i can then run the pipe and install the heater and vent. Any experience in installing these? ANY SUGGESTION ON MODEL?

    NG (non vented)

    A simpler version of the NG heater due to not requiring the vent installation. My concerns are:
    • Fumes
    • Humidity
    • ANY SUGGESTION ON MODEL?

    Wood Stove

    I have been wanting to go this route so bad but I only have 1.5 stall garage and floor space is at a premium. Is the venting/piping the same as a NG install? Concerns with wood stove,

    [*]Space required for unit (looking for smallest unit but not sacrificing too much to limit log capacity)

    [*]Space required around the unit

    [*]Following code around the stove for non-combustible material

    [*]Increase insurance

    [*]ANY SUGGESTION ON MODEL?

    I have looked high and low and am just short of calling the building department of the city to find building codes and installation requirements... any idea on where to look for this?

    Any other options to heat this space? I am looking at NG due to cheap cost of running compared to electricity.

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Wood Stove

I have been wanting to go this route so bad but I only have 1.5 stall garage and floor space is at a premium. Is the venting/piping the same as a NG install? Concerns with wood stove,

  • Space required for unit (looking for smallest unit but not sacrificing too much to limit log capacity)
  • Space required around the unit

Space needed to store the wood?

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Vic,

I would like to put a heat source in my small 1.5 stall garage shop. My options I am considering are below

  • Natural gas heater (vented)
  • Natural gas heater (non vented)
  • Wood Stove

    NG (Vented)

    The NG heater (vented model) was quoted to get installed for $1700. This includes all materials and labor. I cannot seem to bite this bullet. I would like to install this unit myself. The only thing I would think would be difficult would be tapping off of the patio supply (grill and gas lantern), which I am thinking of hiring them just to stub it in for me. i can then run the pipe and install the heater and vent. Any experience in installing these? ANY SUGGESTION ON MODEL?

    NG (non vented)

    A simpler version of the NG heater due to not requiring the vent installation. My concerns are:
    • Fumes
    • Humidity
    • ANY SUGGESTION ON MODEL?

    Wood Stove

    I have been wanting to go this route so bad but I only have 1.5 stall garage and floor space is at a premium. Is the venting/piping the same as a NG install? Concerns with wood stove,

    [*]Space required for unit (looking for smallest unit but not sacrificing too much to limit log capacity)

    [*]Space required around the unit

    [*]Following code around the stove for non-combustible material

    [*]Increase insurance

    [*]ANY SUGGESTION ON MODEL?

    I have looked high and low and am just short of calling the building department of the city to find building codes and installation requirements... any idea on where to look for this?

    Any other options to heat this space? I am looking at NG due to cheap cost of running compared to electricity.

    Don't go non vented. Your tools will rust and building will rot.

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Finally found some of that information I've been looking for. Best link I can provide is this one: http://www.dickinson...com/Support.php

I tracked it down by following the background photos from some tiny home links. True, this is designed more for smaller shops (under 50 square foot) and boats, and runs on propane, but it might work for smaller areas.

Then I remembered one of my favorite local stores. Lehmans, in Kidron, OH. These guys have the Amish as a major client, so they're sure to have some options for wood stoves. (Like this cheaper option... still in the DIY category.) (My favorite are the gas refrigerators and freezers.) I can spend hours touring their shop, as they sell a lot of hand-made (or resembling-hand-made, which is close enough) products. Source of inspiration, great day trip, fantastic food, and you're out of the house.

Edited by jHop
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Vic, quick question:

How does having a wood burning stove affect efficiency? Particularly when it comes to insulation barriers, don't they require a draw of air from somewhere? Will having too efficient a barrier smother the fire, or is there a second draw source we could install that will not detract from shop heat efficiency?

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Don't go non vented. Your tools will rust and building will rot.

PB,

Sorry, I didn't see your comment earlier. The heat source, gas or wood, depends on pricing. I agree with DWacker on non-vented. I think they shouldn't even be sold. If you go the route of a wood stove, JHop is correct in your need to assess the tightness of your envelope. Generally speaking you should provide the stove with it's own air supply. Without me measuring your air exchanges, I won't recommend a wood stove that doesn't have it's own make up air.

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Vic, quick question:

How does having a wood burning stove affect efficiency? Particularly when it comes to insulation barriers, don't they require a draw of air from somewhere? Will having too efficient a barrier smother the fire, or is there a second draw source we could install that will not detract from shop heat efficiency?

Justin,

You are correct. A fire place or wood without a direct intake to the outside does nothing but look pretty and quickly depressurize the house. It's more cost than I would spend for the ambiance.

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Justin,

You are correct. A fire place or wood without a direct intake to the outside does nothing but look pretty and quickly depressurize the house. It's more cost than I would spend for the ambiance.

So if you can mount one to an outside wall, or within a reasonable distance, it could become effective. However, the further from the wall you go (and the thicker the wall you need to go through), the less cost-effective it becomes?

(I'm thinking for the next shop, not the current one. The current one I'm just going to have to deal with the big open hole in the wall the landlord won't let me close.)

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So if you can mount one to an outside wall, or within a reasonable distance, it could become effective. However, the further from the wall you go (and the thicker the wall you need to go through), the less cost-effective it becomes?

(I'm thinking for the next shop, not the current one. The current one I'm just going to have to deal with the big open hole in the wall the landlord won't let me close.)

If you've got a good source for free wood it's a good way to go. I wish we could've done a firestove. Sylvia's sister has one and their warmth is really nice.

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If you've got a good source for free wood it's a good way to go. I wish we could've done a firestove. Sylvia's sister has one and their warmth is really nice.

You can always install one. You should have good access to wood where you are and hey, just use it as a supplement to the heat you already use. Friends of ours have a huge BBQ every December and cook a pig on the pit. In the past, he's used all wood. It's a lot of work. He's older and not much on babysitting the pit all night now. I told him to put a gas burner in the pit and let that provide most of the constant heat and still add some wood for the flavor. I imagine this could be a pretty easy way to go with a shop and a load of wood would last all winter.
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