Vic Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Sounds like you have it figured out. Vapor barrier, then floating floor. As long as you don't have moisture problems, that should be pretty straight forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwood Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Thanks,simple enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jHop Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Sounds like you have it figured out. Vapor barrier, then floating floor. As long as you don't have moisture problems, that should be pretty straight forward. attach the barrier to the floating floor, by adhesive, or no? I read a tip somewhere, somewhen, that said to nail the 2x4 to the floor by powder gun before building a platform... but (based off my previous floor) I was too afraid to cause more damage. Plus, the house was the lowest one on the street, which meant flooding annually. (I still have some lumber there that has long since passed away... haven't had time or gloves enough to get rid of it.) The thought of driving holes into the cracks only made me cringe more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 When I get home, I'll post a link to a detail spec I found on this. To keep the flooring from cupping, there is a specific barrier you can use. (null) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 OK..here's some detail specs for ya. This is by far the best site on building science. This guy knows his stuff. http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-003-concrete-floor-problems/ http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-001-the-perfect-wall Happy reading! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim DaddyO Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 What would I like to know about building a shop?....How am I ever going to afford to do it?....lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Vic-- I have one for you. I'm an architect, but I do exclusively commercial and am barely competent with residential details, so I'll throw a residential question out there. My brother is going to build a deck over the top of where his basement walks out. He wants to store his lawn mower, bikes, etc, under the deck. What kind of roof do you suggest that can somehow attach to the underside of the joists of the deck? We live in the Kansas City, so snow loads and shedding rain are a concern. I first thought of lapping some corrugated material and mounting them with neoprene washer/screws. However, you would have to mount to the underside of the joists, so the neoprene would be on the "inside" of the space, therefore, water has already penetrated the shell. Furthermore, that roof would essentially create tubs of water as there would be no slope. Have you seen anything like this or have any suggestions? It sounds like this must have been done a thousand times, and I am missing some obvious solution. This is a tricky one... If you drape epdm roofing from joist to joist without any pitch puddles will form and the epdm will fail in time. To use this sort of system these are the steps you should take and consider. 1: Taper the bottom of the deck joists 1/8" per foot. 2: Make sure the membrane is behind the deck ledger against the house and under the flashing than is behind the deck ledger board. 3: At this point you don't necessarily need the epdm to drape between the joist due to the fact that you have pitch going away from the house. 4: Make sure you screw the epdm to the bottom side of the joists using a batten and be vigilant in how many screw you use. every 6-8" 5: Make sure to use a low modulus caulking on the contact point of the epdm and bottom side of the joists. Sika flex is the best low modulus caulking I have ever used. You can also use this system with corrugated steel or fiberglass. 3 key points are: 1: make sure there is pitch. even flat roofs have pitch 2: make sure you are under your deck flashing at your house connection. 3: make sure you seal material to underside of joists with low modulus caulking. There is also a company that I believe is called dry snap that is a soffit material made for the underside of 2nd floor decks. I would not be as concerned about snow load due to the fact that there is a deck above that will carry the snow load. You are just going to want to capture water that will penetrate the deck boards to bellow when snow melts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankengruvin Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Vic, I want to know EVERYTHING! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Vic, I want to know EVERYTHING! If you're building a shop, I'd be happy to consult on the energy efficiency measures. PM me and we can set up a call. I work better giving advice in a two way interview process. You can also read up on http://www.buildingscience.com/index_html The author is, in my opinion and many others, the foremost authority on building science. I won't publish a general list of things to do, simply because too much of it depends on your environment. You can get away with different things in the desert I live in than you can in Seattle or any other place that has different environmental factors to consider. I do not have expertise in moisture mitigation. I have a very good intellectual knowledge, but zero experience and when you are discussing a house, or even a shop, it is a complete "living" system. Even the occupants hold a very significant position in how a house will perform and what is needed to best address the health and longevity of the building. Many in my field believe you can do everything right and the occupant can still screw it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim DaddyO Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 OK Vic, this one should be right up your alley. I hear the way to go for heating and cooling is ductless heat pump. Is it really the cheapest method? Do they work on 115V? Can you school me a bit on the general principles and operation of them? Every site I visit advertises how great they are, without actually explaining what they are. Do they require plumbing into the ground like a regular heat pump? Wow, this could be a whole article... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 OK Vic, this one should be right up your alley. I hear the way to go for heating and cooling is ductless heat pump. Is it really the cheapest method? Do they work on 115V? Can you school me a bit on the general principles and operation of them? Every site I visit advertises how great they are, without actually explaining what they are. Do they require plumbing into the ground like a regular heat pump? Wow, this could be a whole article... Jim, Yes, except for a "pump and dump" ground source heat pump, meaning the source is a well and it is "dumped" onto the ground not back into the well, a ductless heat pump (DHP) is the best. A really great article can be found at Green Building Advisor. http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/book/export/html/15240 The long and short is they have great COP (coefficient of performance). Nowadays, everything is rating in HSPF (Heating season performance factor and SEER (Seasonal energy efficiency ratio). I don't care for either of these ratings as well as COP. COP is the measure of energy transference, meaning how many btus from 1 btu. This go down as it get colder, but with DHPs it is still above 1 even down to zero. As far as 115V...yes. I do know that LG makes one. I'm not sure of the specs, although it is what we have on our TREK (Travelling Renewable Energy Kiosk) my buddy at work built. At an outdoor temp of 35, I took a reading of 105 from the inside unit. That's pretty damn good. My local contractors have told me LG has some problems over the last couple years. My home system is Mitsubishi. Fujitsu and Daikin are also both leaders in the technology. All heat pumps are a refrigeration cycle and therefore create condensation, so yes, they need to be drained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Slack Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Vic. "nobody is as unique as one thinks" I start my question this way because this is what I learned with years. The approach is to design a flexible shop concept taking in account future improvements. I started my studio in a "shotgun design approach" and threw things together. Basically four Festool tables and stored a bunch of stuff underneath. Quickly I learned that the more table space I had out, the more stuff found a home on the tables. Then I build carts on casters to home all my Systainers and was able to store most of my Festool boxes on four stacks. Next Drilling unit ... on casters Planer base plus outfeeed ... on casters Jointer with mobile base Mitre saw (Kapex) on a festool table Router table fits underneath the mitre saw table. Table Saw (I have a Bosch contractor saw on a folding moblie unit) I don't have a floor design yet because I am thinking of workflow. I am trying to get rid of all cabinets ... all of them. and store long term items up high leaving my floorspace wide open, or items on mobile bases. So since I know that my next two investments will be 1. a good bandsaw that will be able to resaw lumber ... and may be a second one for joinery. 2. a better tablesaw ... for sure a sawstop. So I am not wanting to commit to anything until I think that everything is set and for sure. The concept right now is to compress sections on mobile bases that can be moved and the place can keep clean. I will also build a pantry with a European pull out unit so when my wife brings items from Costco they can be stored there. The other foreign unit will be a washer and dryer. On the washer I will use all the gray water going to the front yard. No sense in throwing water I paid for. Piping will be "pec" piping, which is designed primarily for cold weather but I will adapt this concept to Suthern California because of the labor savings (no right angle connections needed because Pec piping is basicall y a hose). Flooring. I will use whatever leftover hardwood floor I have leftover from an improvement I made in the house. Upgrades. 1) 2 or 3 windows. 2) Insulate the roof and walls. 3) sidewalls I will probably install plywood walls so I can hang anyting I want on any wall I want. Plus this will make the place earthquake proof. 4) French door opening to my side yard so I don't need to open my garage door for air. 5) instead of using the typical roll up garage door I am considering using a traditinal hinge door of some sort. Reason behind this is that the roll up door takes a lot of room and takes the head space away from me. So here is my puzzle. I think that most guys out there started this journey as a patch thing and slowly we get bigger and bigger. One day we realize we need to re-consider the whole thing and the re-design becomes quite overwhelming. Thanks, Bobby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Bobby, "pecs" is PEX tubing http://www.pexinfo.com/ and is commonly used for both hot and cold water supply, as well as hydronic radiant heating systems. There are different PEX connection systems, some better than others. It is increasingly becoming the standard for building, as it has less connections that can leak, it makes plumbing a house much easier and if freezing occurs, is much less likely to burst than older, traditional systems. Regarding overhead garage style doors. I'm not a fan of them ever being used except to facilitate the entrance of a vehicle. They cannot be air sealed anywhere near as well as a 6'-0" set of double doors (sometimes referred to as french doors). As you move forward with your shop retrofits, be sure to air seal as you go. Insulation is secondary to air sealing. It is still very important, but nearly as effective without first air sealing. Think of a jacket being zipped up or not. If it's cold out and you have a very well insulated jacket, you'll still get very cold if you don't zip it up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Slack Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Vic ... Pex ... I am with you 100% ... this is a no brainer. Double Doors ... again we are in agreement. Air sealing ... agreed also. Since I am dealing with an existing building. Do I seal this from the Inside? What is the process? Say lay some sort of plastic from the inside on top of the framing and before the insulation? ... then insulation ... then Plywood? What is the process without taking all the wall down? My first project will probably be the sealing or may be first creating the openings for windows. On the garage door, I also thought about making it bigger. Bobby, "pecs" is PEX tubing http://www.pexinfo.com/ and is commonly used for both hot and cold water supply, as well as hydronic radiant heating systems. There are different PEX connection systems, some better than others. It is increasingly becoming the standard for building, as it has less connections that can leak, it makes plumbing a house much easier and if freezing occurs, is much less likely to burst than older, traditional systems. Regarding overhead garage style doors. I'm not a fan of them ever being used except to facilitate the entrance of a vehicle. They cannot be air sealed anywhere near as well as a 6'-0" set of double doors (sometimes referred to as french doors). As you move forward with your shop retrofits, be sure to air seal as you go. Insulation is secondary to air sealing. It is still very important, but nearly as effective without first air sealing. Think of a jacket being zipped up or not. If it's cold out and you have a very well insulated jacket, you'll still get very cold if you don't zip it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Bobby, I prefer to do an interview style consult on things like this. No two buildings are the same, so general advice often falls short. PM me. I can talk to you on Monday sometime, if that works for you. You have my number. Just let me know what time works. Photos or video would be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Slack Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Vic. That is perfect ... I am involved in a grilling contest. We live in a great neighborhood, not because of the prize of real estate, or the size of the homes ... but because of putting the time, effort, hart, passion and love on building a community. So it is grilling competition and while doing this, I am debating which Belgium blonde I like the best ... Chimay, Fin Du Monde, Duvel, or New Belgium (Ft. Collins, CO). Grilling and beer sipping ... not a bad day. Speak with you on Monday. I will do a sketch. Thank you. Ah ... everything is done on the cheap at this moment. Have a great weekend. Bobby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 I don't know much about plumbing, but I had heard that copper was preferable to PEX because small leaks in copper would self-seal. The oxidation would expand and fill the leak. Is PEX preferable to copper? It's certainly easier to work with. I never did get the hang of sweating a big 3/4" brass ball valve onto copper pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 I don't know much about plumbing, but I had heard that copper was preferable to PEX because small leaks in copper would self-seal. The oxidation would expand and fill the leak. Is PEX preferable to copper? It's certainly easier to work with. I never did get the hang of sweating a big 3/4" brass ball valve onto copper pipe. Definitely yes in my opinion. If copper freezes it will split, but PEX is flexible. I like to see copper used for the final connections, but that's just a preference I have for the look final hook ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 Thanks. What kind of connectors do you like for PEX? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 The best from what my plumber friend tells me is the one that relies on the memory of the PEX. The tool for crimping is cheaper, but according to my buddy that process has more propensity to leak, but you'll see it, if you inspect the work before closing any cavities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Price to build? That's going to vary greatly from area to area. I have a 1200 sq ft shop. The basic building would've been about $70/sq ft when I started building, but I did almost all if it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 I am going to upgrade the lights in my shop to T8 fixtures. Should I use the plastic light diffuser, or buy a fixture that is bare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 I have the plastic diffusers. If you use the calculator, you can take the fixture efficiency into account. The diffuser does reduce lumen throw, but I have them and have enough light. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jHop Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 does the diffuser matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted August 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 does the diffuser matter? Yes, the diffuser does go into the equation on how efficiently the fixture throws light where you need it. Mine keeps a lot of the light in the fixture, but I'm overlit in general, so it doesn't matter so much. I like having the diffuser because it helps keep the lamps clean. They should be clean periodically to remove the dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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