Making "urban tree" lumber


chopnhack

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Driving home from work today I see a large pile of oak tree trimmings lining the road by one of the buildings I pass. I stop and ask if I can take some and the guy said, "all if you want as its sitting out for the trash!" Now granted there are only a few pieces wide enough to eek out a board, and leaving aside the arguments against working with urban wood, my question is about pests. Aside from visual inspection of the wood itself, is there anything else I can do? Should I bag up the wood and leave it sit airtight for awhile, leave the bag in a car trunk and let it get hot, etc. I have no access to a kiln and no space to build one (nor would the city allow me! LOL) The only thing I do have is a wood preservative called Timbor - its a boric acid derivative that is dissolved in water and applied to wood to fend off termites, etc. I was wondering if after milling, if applying the solution would violate the whole, don't get the wood wet again after milling rule...

 

What are your thoughts and experiences?

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Maybe it is wildly different in the Florida climate/ecosystem, but I have never had any problems with air drying.   If you have a covered area where you can sticker them a couple of feet off the ground to ensure good air flow, and seal the ends, termites really should not be a problem.  Pay particular attention to the end seal - drywood termites enter from the open ends.

 

If your area is unusually bad, cedar mulch on the ground in the immediate area of your stack will make it unappealing.

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I wouldn't be as concerned about insects as I would the lumber being suitable to build with in the first place.  Anything that came off of a branch I wouldn't even bother with...that wood has a lot of tension in it..."reaction wood," as they call it.  You'll never get it to stay flat.  If you just want some pieces to turn, go for it.  But for furniture...beware.  Reaction wood and flat work don't play nice.

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I wouldn't be as concerned about insects as I would the lumber being suitable to build with in the first place.  Anything that came off of a branch I wouldn't even bother with...that wood has a lot of tension in it..."reaction wood," as they call it.  You'll never get it to stay flat.  If you just want some pieces to turn, go for it.  But for furniture...beware.  Reaction wood and flat work don't play nice.

 

By branch do you mean one that's not connected to the trunk?  Or stay away from branch wood, period?

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Well I found some stumps today! I was unable to squat the nice log into my trunk... wait, that doesn't sound good...  There was a large log... :blink:  .....   Wait, wait, let me try this again... I rolled this round, cylindrical piece of white oak to my vehicle. It was about 2' wide across the middle and about 3.5' long :)  I was able to roll it and get it righted :)  but I was unable to squat it to tilt it into the car. :angry:  So I had to roll it back to the rest of the pile. I really needed the van, some ramps and a peavey... I also found that after bringing home what I did, I really didn't have anymore room...

 

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As for the storage, I was thinking of leaving them in the shop after I slabbed them out! The shop is attached to the house and the AC units that service the house are in the there too. Naturally there is a little leakage so the garage stays a decent temperature when the door is closed. In the summer, its around 84 at the worst with humidity around 70-80% - that is worse case scenario. Right now its a nice temp and humidity. Things stay dry in the shop so I figured, there is no rush for this wood, let it sit a year or two (going for 5/4 rough).

 

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The main problem is I never bought any blades for my bandsaw outside of what came with it from grizzly!! I figured it would be sharp enough for at least a few flitches... nope!!

 

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Got to get a resaw blade before this stuff goes to pot. I put paste wax on the exposed ends and for the piece I cut the faces, I waxed those up too. It was Johnson's paste wax, only thing I had on hand. Should be interesting to see if it works! This was all salvaged from the sidewalk - garbage truck comes thursday, so maybe I can find new life for these guys.

Let me know what you think!

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To much for a bandsaw. Save the wear and tear. I wouldn't do it with mine.

Seriously PB? It's a 17" 2 h.p. grizzly - I mean, isn't that what the b.s. is made to do? Granted, its not a higher dollar machine, but it surely is capable of resawing. The problem I was having was not the power, it was the blade itself, too small and wrong type for wet resaw. Fill me in please on your thoughts.

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Seriously PB? It's a 17" 2 h.p. grizzly - I mean, isn't that what the b.s. is made to do? Granted, its not a higher dollar machine, but it surely is capable of resawing. The problem I was having was not the power, it was the blade itself, too small and wrong type for wet resaw. Fill me in please on your thoughts.

Green wood eats blades. You need 1 tpi blades or close to it and real hp. Your just wearing blades and over working the saw.

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Green wood eats blades. You need 1 tpi blades or close to it and real hp. Your just wearing blades and over working the saw.

2 h.p. is not real? eep :blink:  I remember seeing some options for 1.1 or 1.3 something like that in 1" wide band. The machine will accept it, but not sure if 2 h.p. will be enough.

 

I hate to be Debbie Downer, but geez that seems like a whole lotta work for a few short sticks of oak.  Good on ya for "saving" a tree, though.  I guess.  :D

It's ok, I wouldn't normally do it, but I have no experience in resawing or drying wood. It was a good opportunity to learn about the processes and recycle some nice wood. I may take a stab at riving the pieces if I can't get a blade soon and maybe make a stool or something from the green wood.

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2 h.p. is not real? eep :blink:  I remember seeing some options for 1.1 or 1.3 something like that in 1" wide band. The machine will accept it, but not sure if 2 h.p. will be enough.

 

It's ok, I wouldn't normally do it, but I have no experience in resawing or drying wood. It was a good opportunity to learn about the processes and recycle some nice wood. I may take a stab at riving the pieces if I can't get a blade soon and maybe make a stool or something from the green wood.

I wouldn't do it on my 5hp 24". Maybe 10 hp or more saw but not a regular bandsaw.

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I don't quite agree with the 'wouldn't do it' - but I would not go for 4/4 or 5/4.  A lot of cutting to get readily available lumber.  I generally use wood like that to get large pieces (8/4+) riftsawn, which takes a lot fewer cuts and gives you something hard to find.

 

A 'green' blade (often sold as a turners blade) will help too.   You don't need that much horsepower, but you will have to be patient.

 

For white oak, I would definitely look at riving it.

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I don't quite agree with the 'wouldn't do it' - but I would not go for 4/4 or 5/4.  A lot of cutting to get readily available lumber.  I generally use wood like that to get large pieces (8/4+) riftsawn, which takes a lot fewer cuts and gives you something hard to find.

 

A 'green' blade (often sold as a turners blade) will help too.   You don't need that much horsepower, but you will have to be patient.

 

For white oak, I would definitely look at riving it.

I was thinking about 5/4 just so that the wood wouldn't tie up my stack forever. I figured 1-2 years for 5/4. I would imagine 8/4 would take significantly longer. Riftsawn would be interesting to do but wouldn't that take more cuts, not fewer and produce more waste? I will look into that green blade. From what I recall when I was looking for a blade, low tooth count with heavy set to clear our the dust and to help keep the kerf from binding was what people used for green resaw. I agree with you, 2hp should be able to resaw, the b.s. wasn't slowing at all when I was running the piece, it was the blade that was not keeping up - there was some drift, some binding and just too many teeth for the thickness being cut.

 

Have you rived white oak before?

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Riftsawn 12/4 or 16/4 would not take that many cuts, +/- 4 big pieces and then maybe some 4/4 to use the rest.    Certainly, if you are making thinner boards, it will be more cuts.   Definitely takes longer to dry, a few years.   I end up using a reasonable amount for turning, so I am not that fussed.

 

I know Highland has a Woodturner's blade, though I have not tried that particular one.  The key is the set and raker tooth pattern.

 

I have not riven any oak before - it is fairly scarce up here, the only ring porous wood we get much of is ash.  I have been keeping an eye out for some green white oak for a while now, since that Follansbee book.

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Do you resaw dry wood with your 24" b.s. ? Or no resaw at all?

Occasionally, but its a bandsaw not a resaw. Folks get so caught up in re saw capacity especially with underpowered saws and exaggerated re saw capacities. It really more of the right tool for the job. For green logs I have a chainsaw mill and used to own a woodmizer. Band saws are not designed to mill green lumber nor are most capable of running a blade that last very long in green material. Even with my old wood mizer about 4-5 hours all you could expect out of a blade cutting green oak. Then there is the old BS about going slow. Feed rate is require to get clean cuts without a steady somewhat fast feed rate your cut quality is garbage. Slow feed rates destroy blades with heat. On the other side you can't get good feed rates if your overworking your saw. Look at some of the bandsaw reviews. I'm not going to mention names but some one here just posted a review of a 14" saw and stated how well it made a re saw cut. But the pic of the wood told the truth the saw struggled made an ugly cut which essentially shortened an already short blade life and wasted lumber. A five hp bandsaw has a true occasional re saw capacity of about 11 max with dry wood medium hardness like mahogany and that is pushing the limits. Occasionally is fine but even large saws are not re saws. It makes no sense what so ever to abuse equipment well past its capacity as you see in the hobby bandsaw world. There is a right tool for every job and it's ok to improvise every now and again but there is a limit and diminished returns.

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Occasionally, but its a bandsaw not a resaw. Folks get so caught up in re saw capacity especially with underpowered saws and exaggerated re saw capacities. It really more of the right tool for the job. For green logs I have a chainsaw mill and used to own a woodmizer. Band saws are not designed to mill green lumber nor are most capable of running a blade that last very long in green material. Even with my old wood mizer about 4-5 hours all you could expect out of a blade cutting green oak. Then there is the old BS about going slow. Feed rate is require to get clean cuts without a steady somewhat fast feed rate your cut quality is garbage. Slow feed rates destroy blades with heat. On the other side you can't get good feed rates if your overworking your saw. Look at some of the bandsaw reviews. I'm not going to mention names but some one here just posted a review of a 14" saw and stated how well it made a re saw cut. But the pic of the wood told the truth the saw struggled made an ugly cut which essentially shortened an already short blade life and wasted lumber. A five hp bandsaw has a true occasional re saw capacity of about 11 max with dry wood medium hardness like mahogany and that is pushing the limits. Occasionally is fine but even large saws are not re saws. It makes no sense what so ever to abuse equipment well past its capacity as you see in the hobby bandsaw world. There is a right tool for every job and it's ok to improvise every now and again but there is a limit and diminished returns.

Thanks PB, I like the real world information you provided! There is so much press and understandingly, advertisements, to get you to buy bandsaws based just on that - the ability to resaw. Granted, I bought mine not solely for resaw, but I thought it would be cool to have that option for splitting the occasional board and for resawing some "found" lumber.

 

I will have to ask you though, something you wrote above made me think about an old post about chainsaw power heads going from the abuse of constant sawing --- I found it:

 

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:57 AM

Unless you own a resaw like a Baker or something re sawing logs on a bandsaw is not going to work. I've own chainsaw mills for years. The power heads and chains are expensive. They are better suited to make table slabs and beams defiantly not general lumber. I do it as more of a hobby and over the years have spent enough money on equipment I could have paid for a woodmizer.

 

 

Why did you get rid of the woodmizer if its a better option for green lumber?

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Why did you get rid of the woodmizer if its a better option for green lumber?

 

 

Again diminished returns. I partnered with a business partner and we owned two wood mizers and 3 45 ft kilns. It was great in the early years as a supply chain for my shop but as cost grew it was nothing more than a money pit that could not pay its own expenses. Just like anything else it was cheaper just to go buy lumber. You have such a small amount of usable wood but have enough to go through a blade, a bunch of time, and wear and tear on your saw. Do the math, oak is cheap. Chainsaw mills are a decent option but for the most part they are an expense and the returns are more of personal satisfaction which IMO is great for a big table slab if you can afford the expense. No way would I make regular lumber with a chainsaw mill.

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Just to add, while I am not quite as down on the whole idea as PB is, I agree with his broader view that it is hard work for a band saw.    Hence my suggestion you not bother with something readily available like 5/4 white oak.   I do it mainly when I come into pieces of woods you just don't see commercially, like apple, pear, or hophornbeam.   For those, I am willing to go through a blade and put some wear and tear on the tool.

 

I'd love to have a woodmizer, but I would have to keep it up in country - where I know a couple of sawyers with a permanent set-up.   In the city, where I come across most of the harder-to-find woods, it would be just to bulky to store for such infrequent use.

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I guess it really boils down to using the right tool for the job. If I wanted to take advantage of urban lumber and get pickup truck sized logs I could have gotten a 10hp woodmizer that would have cost about the same as what I paid for my bandsaw. My neighbor has an LT10 and its all any hobby guy could ever need, he got it second hand for $2500. They are perfect for folks that live in town and dont have tractors to lift giant logs.

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To justify even a LT10 (that was the one I was thinking of) I think you would really need to have a woodlot as something of a hobby.  For doing maybe 100 board feet a year as the opportunity arises, a band saw may not be the right tool - certainly not the cheapest in terms of blade mileage, but you can get it done.    If you really wanted to get into the hobby/craft/trade of urban lumber though, I agree with you.

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Again diminished returns. I partnered with a business partner and we owned two wood mizers and 3 45 ft kilns. It was great in the early years as a supply chain for my shop but as cost grew it was nothing more than a money pit that could not pay its own expenses. Just like anything else it was cheaper just to go buy lumber. You have such a small amount of usable wood but have enough to go through a blade, a bunch of time, and wear and tear on your saw. Do the math, oak is cheap. Chainsaw mills are a decent option but for the most part they are an expense and the returns are more of personal satisfaction which IMO is great for a big table slab if you can afford the expense. No way would I make regular lumber with a chainsaw mill.

 

Thanks PB, I appreciate your insight, experience and responses.

 

Just to add, while I am not quite as down on the whole idea as PB is, I agree with his broader view that it is hard work for a band saw.    Hence my suggestion you not bother with something readily available like 5/4 white oak.   I do it mainly when I come into pieces of woods you just don't see commercially, like apple, pear, or hophornbeam.   For those, I am willing to go through a blade and put some wear and tear on the tool.

 

I'd love to have a woodmizer, but I would have to keep it up in country - where I know a couple of sawyers with a permanent set-up.   In the city, where I come across most of the harder-to-find woods, it would be just to bulky to store for such infrequent use.

 

Agreed, its indispensable for species you are not likely to find at retail. Again, aside from the wood being free, I thought it would be a good experience to take from the tree to the board. Here is a pic I took with my phone of an offcut that I hand planed to clean up.

 

IMG_20140211_140623_zpsa7ca3641.jpg

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Stick to dry wood on the bandsaw (veneers)...

 

We shouldn't limit ourselves to just our property.  We could place ads for taking people's trees.  

Bring the Mizer to the scene of the crime or bring a cut tree back to the Mizer.  It's endless really.

 

Chop,

Too bad you don't live closer we could go in on one and then keep it at my house.   ;)  

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Stick to dry wood on the bandsaw (veneers)...

 

We shouldn't limit ourselves to just our property.  We could place ads for taking people's trees.  

Bring the Mizer to the scene of the crime or bring a cut tree back to the Mizer.  It's endless really.

 

Chop,

Too bad you don't live closer we could go in on one and then keep it at my house.   ;)  

LOL, that would work for me! I would just have to explain to the mrs. why I am never home :blink::P:D

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