Bandsaw blew a tire - hit the wall!! Help

[tim0625]

I was resawing some South Carolina Live Oak last night and I began seeing shreds of upper tire.  Mayday! The tire is sliding off of the cast iron wheel to the rear.  Adjustment problems? I'm thinking the tire sliding off of the rear may tell someone something. Suggestions please.  I don't have a lot of experience resawing so this was probably the biggest test of my saw - Jet 18" Model JWBS-18. The cast iron wheels are approx 18 1/4 in diameter. I have a new Timberwolf blade - I think it's 1" but it's what the lady recommended for resawing. I think the tires were flat spotted anyway from the previous owner and they needed replacing.  So adjustment suggestions is #1 and #2, where is the best place to buy new tires to fit my saw.  Is there a brand that's better? Also, where do you buy guide bearings? Lastly, beautiful wood isn't it?

Thanks

Tim

[dwacker]

1/2" blade is plenty for that saw its a little underpowered for a 1" blade. Are you steering the blade? What I mean are you tilting the upper wheel to compensate for drift? Are the tires rubber or urethane?  Most places sell tires, woodcraft and rockler should have urethane tires. When you get into the bigger blade sizes your running alot more blade tension.What speed is the saw running?

 

May just be old tires but more likely its the blade setup being amplified by the larger blade. You can get away with alot more with smaller blades.

[tim0625]

1.5 HP....not sure what width blade I should be running. I just trusted the lady at Timberwolf.  At the same time I ordered the 1" blade, I also ordered a 1/2". 

 

Not steering.  I set my fence for 1" and ripped the log. Slabs came out to be 1" thick. 

 

IDK on the tires....they seem like rubber.  What's better?  What the + and - of urethane vs rubber tires? 

 

Speed, I have no idea but my feed rate is slow and steady. Does this info help?

[AceHoleInOne]

Not sure on your saw...but you may need to crown the tires. Crowning help to keep the teeth of the blade from digging into the tires. Lots of good info just do a google search.

 

-Ace-

[dwacker]

1.5 HP....not sure what width blade I should be running. I just trusted the lady at Timberwolf.  At the same time I ordered the 1" blade, I also ordered a 1/2". 

 

Not steering.  I set my fence for 1" and ripped the log. Slabs came out to be 1" thick. 

 

IDK on the tires....they seem like rubber.  What's better?  What the + and - of urethane vs rubber tires? 

 

Speed, I have no idea but my feed rate is slow and steady. Does this info help?

 

Urethane tires last longer and dont get brittle like rubber. 1/2" blade is plenty. Your timber wolf blades should run at above 2500 sfpm. Check your owners manual or look at the pulleys I believe that is a two speed saw. High speed should be about right at 3000 sfpm.

Now that its to late to tell. But big blades need alot more tension if you find that you have to camber your wheel to much to keep it centered the blade will push the tire off the wheel. When you use wide blades center one gullet depth on the crown that should keep you from damaging your tires. Here is a pic of my saw with a 1" blade. The teeth of the blade are not touching the tire but the blade is pushed back to just behind the gullet. This is where a blade is at zero and should not be pushing either direction on the tire and cuts straight without steering. With your smaller half inch blades it doesnt really matter they dont have enough tension to do any harm.

 

[Trip]

18" and 1.5HP?  That's not enough power for a 1" blade.  You are talking 1/2".

 

For new tires, I really like the carter premium urethane tires.  They are expensive and I never thought tires would make a difference, but my saw ran much quieter with decent tires. 

 

I assume you have the manual for blade tracking, wheel plane setup, etc...  There are also some awesome videos on bandsaw tune-ups and resawing techniques on YouTube.

[Mike Frank]

you go PB see you got your camera fixed that is a clear picture.

[Eric.]

Can someone explain to me why a wider blade requires more power?  If you have a 1" blade and a 1/2" blade with the same size kerf and the same number of teeth...what's the difference?  Requiring more tension I get...but power...why?  And while you're explaining that...what's the benefit of a wider blade anyway?  I have a 3/4" and a 3/8" that are identical otherwise, and I can see absolutely zero difference in the cut speed or quality when I resaw with them.

[Nick2cd]

Eric,

I can't answer your question regarding power, but I find that a wider blade makes it easier to track a straight cut. This is especially useful during resawing. Maybe the extra blade width creates more drag/friction thus requiring more power to keep it moving?

[Eric.]

That would make sense when cutting curves since the wood would contact the back of the blade.  But for ripping and resawing, if your bandsaw is tuned right and you've got your drift dialed in, shouldn't the width of the blade be moot, since once the teeth open the kerf, there should be basically no contact with the rest of the blade?

 

I'm sure there's a good reason...I just don't know what it is...aside from "bigger is always better." 

[dwacker]

Can someone explain to me why a wider blade requires more power? If you have a 1" blade and a 1/2" blade with the same size kerf and the same number of teeth...what's the difference? Requiring more tension I get...but power...why? And while you're explaining that...what's the benefit of a wider blade anyway? I have a 3/4" and a 3/8" that are identical otherwise, and I can see absolutely zero difference in the cut speed or quality when I resaw with them.

Its not that the saw cant turn the wide blade. It's that the saw cant benefit from the beam. The width gives you a stiffer beam thus letting you apply more feeding force. Lower powered light weight saws can't take the force. First not enough power to turn under the force. Just like stalling your tablesaw or any other saw. Second wide blades need alot of tension there is no sense in stressing a light weight machine when you won't see the benefit. Last the saws don't have the speed to clear the blade. If the gullets are filled you create friction and just dull the blade. One good way to see gullet loading is by the saw dust mess.

Bigger is better but that should be the whole saw not just the wheel size and band size

[wilburpan]

It looks like the wheels on your bandsaw have a relatively flat profile, without the little lip that would help hold the tire in place like most 14" Delta-type bandsaws have. If the tire is slipping off, either the glue that originally held it in place has failed, or it was never glued down in the first place.

 

Many people like urethane tires for bandsaws. This situation is one where I would not use a urethane tire. Urethane tires are not glued in place for the most part, and over time they do lose their grip on the wheel.

 

The same thing happened to me on my bandsaw. My bandsaw's wheels have a flat profile, and I had installed urethane tires. I was in the middle of a cut, and the top tire came off and shot out of the top compartment. That was quite exciting. When I replaced the tires, I got rubber tires and glued them into place. It was completely worth the mess.

[Eric.]

Its not that the saw cant turn the wide blade. It's that the saw cant benefit from the beam. The width gives you a stiffer beam thus letting you apply more feeding force. Lower powered light weight saws can't take the force. First not enough power to turn under the force. Just like stalling your tablesaw or any other saw. Second wide blades need alot of tension there is no sense in stressing a light weight machine when you won't see the benefit. Last the saws don't have the speed to clear the blade. If the gullets are filled you create friction and just dull the blade. One good way to see gullet loading is by the saw dust mess.

Bigger is better but that should be the whole saw not just the wheel size and band size

 

Makes sense...basically it boils down to cutting faster if your saw can handle it.

 

I've been wanting to upgrade to a Laguna Resaw King for a while.  I have a 17" 2HP...think it can handle the 3/4" blade?  I know I won't be able to throw bubinga through it like butter, but as long as I adjust my feed rate accordingly?

 

Sorry for the thread hijack...

[AceHoleInOne]

That would make sense when cutting curves since the wood would contact the back of the blade.  But for ripping and resawing, if your bandsaw is tuned right and you've got your drift dialed in, shouldn't the width of the blade be moot, since once the teeth open the kerf, there should be basically no contact with the rest of the blade?

 

I'm sure there's a good reason...I just don't know what it is...aside from "bigger is always better." 

 

Don’t forget wood moves, if your resawing wide boards that wood can pinch down on the back portion of a wider blade during longer cuts. So a wide board clamping down on a wide blade causes friction thus you need more power. Also the wider blades are thicker so have a larger kerf, thus takes more material.

I have been doing a lot of resawing was using a 3/4" blade and switched to a 1/2" blade on my under power saw. Works great! Think of it in terms of a table saw. Thin kerf works better on under power saws, same goes for under power band saws.

 

-Ace-

 

[dwacker]

Makes sense...basically it boils down to cutting faster if your saw can handle it.

 

I've been wanting to upgrade to a Laguna Resaw King for a while.  I have a 17" 2HP...think it can handle the 3/4" blade?  I know I won't be able to throw bubinga through it like butter, but as long as I adjust my feed rate accordingly?

 

Sorry for the thread hijack...

 

Yes carbides are different. You want the stiffer beam so go one size bigger than you would normally use. In your case 3/4 is fine. Also look at the lenox trimaster. I have to have all my blades made because nobody stocks them so I save quite abit buying from a local that makes lenox bands. 

[AceHoleInOne]

 

I was informed Lenox blades are now being made off-shore and the quality not so good...just an FYI. The above link is more info on this subject.

 

-Ace-

[dwacker]

 

I was informed Lenox blades are now being made off-shore and the quality not so good...just an FYI. The above link is more info on this subject.

 

-Ace-

 

Lenox trimasters cut as well and last longer than the resaw king. For me a resaw king cost $350 the trimaster cost $250 the $100 savings is enough to not care what country they come from. Ive got a buddy that works at a big furniture manufacturer in NY. He runs there resaw 10 hrs a day with trimaster bulk stock. Chris local here owns nw wood running 3 big woodmizers and two baker ax's with the lenox trimester bulk stock. Mcfarland cascade uses them on their cut off saw that cuts the ends off full bunks 2x 's. 

 

The problem people had in the past was that they were designed as an industrial blade and the smallest wheel size was 20" or the blade would crack. They have changed the design to fit smaller saws and bandmills and now will do fine on saws down to 14"

[Trip]

==> The problem people had in the past was that they were designed as an industrial blade and the smallest wheel size was 20" or the blade would crack. They have changed the design to fit smaller saws and bandmills and now will do fine on saws down to 14"

 

I just got one from them -- love it.  However, some of their blades are still classed for 18" or larger wheels.  Need to review the fine-print on their spec-sheet prior to ordering.

[dsaracini]

Don't have any advice, but that is damn pretty wood. Hope you post a picture of your project when it's done.

[tim0625]

Particle, I did notice the saw slowing down a good bit and generating a lot of dust that wasn't getting cleared; but I assumed it was because of the width of the board I was cutting.  I don't think the gullets were getting cleared so maybe the 1" is too wide for 1.5 HP in a resawing scenario.  Ace, I wasn't getting any pinching on the back of the blade.  I'm thinking the live oak is so stiff and also I was sawing 1" widths so it couldn't flex as much.  Live oak is a wavy, twisted grain wood anyway so there probably weren't stresses to relieve. I'll try the 1/2" blade.

 

On the tires, I called Jet and ordered the tires from them.  They were not urethane.  The Tec representative said not to glue them on...just boil them in water for a few minutes to expand them, put them on the saw, and let them sit a few hours to shrink.  Its a friction fit.

 

Free Ballard......it's got to tell me what it wants to be It may want to be a humidor for one of the rich people here on the coast!! Whatever it turns into, I'll post it.Thanks!

[dwacker]

Particle, I did notice the saw slowing down a good bit and generating a lot of dust that wasn't getting cleared; but I assumed it was because of the width of the board I was cutting.  I don't think the gullets were getting cleared so maybe the 1" is too wide for 1.5 HP in a resawing scenario.  

 

Set your speed to max.

[wilburpan]

On the tires, I called Jet and ordered the tires from them.  They were not urethane.  The Tec representative said not to glue them on...just boil them in water for a few minutes to expand them, put them on the saw, and let them sit a few hours to shrink.  Its a friction fit.

 

 

I don't doubt what you were told, but if your tires were meant to be soaked in hot water, put on without glue, and then they shrink to fit, that sounds an awful lot like what you do with urethane tires. Rubber tires need to be glued on, and there's no boiling in water involved.

 

There may be a new material that bandsaw tires are being made out of that you handle just like urethane tires, but if there is, I'm not aware of it.

[woodieboy]

Urethane tires beat rubber tires. I've had an old band saw which I already sold a year ago and had a rubber tire for it . But I can't recall any issue about it though. Right now, I have an aftermarket urethane tires on my saw and so far, I am very fine with it . 

[tim0625]

The tires came and I think they're urethane.  They're white and thinner than the black tires that came on the saw.

Does this sound right?  Also, if so, then soak them in hot water for - say - 30 minutes and then put them on the saw?

[dwacker]

The tires came and I think they're urethane.  They're white and thinner than the black tires that came on the saw.

Does this sound right?  Also, if so, then soak them in hot water for - say - 30 minutes and then put them on the saw?

 

Yes hot water but not boiling. Do your tires sit in a groove? WMH has been using those white tires for quite some time. I dont know if they rubber or not but they do not get glue. I just did my upper after it was destroyed by steering the blade, so dont do that. Follow the directions from carter dont camber your wheel to try to steer for drift.