Housed Stringer Stairs


Tom King

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I went by a house I built in 1991 today to leave a key.  I had asked Graham a while back about housed stringer stairs.  He mentioned that it was done on that side of the pond.  I'm just posting these pictures to show him that some of us over here do it that way too.

 

These are made from White Oak.  This was before there were Lowes and Home Depots where you can now go to buy 12" wide Red Oak boards.  You may be able to notice that these are not made from laminated boards, color match is good all the way across all the boards with a clear finish.  Treads are a full inch thick.

 

No cleaning has been done in this lake house for a good while.  They don't live here.

 

They were made with a plywood template I made.  This is the way I built any stairs with closed risers.

 

 

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My stairs are enclosed like your first photo with a wall on both sides.  Built in 1997, I bought mine recently as a foreclosure.

Somebody nailed 2X10 and 2X8s directly to the rough treads and risers and then put a crappy looking vinyl over that as a finish.  Looks like a turd.

 

To finish with hardwood as you did, I assume I'll need to remove the 2Xs to get to the bare stringers.  

I don't have access beneath the stairs so attaching a hardwood tread and riser directly over the 2Xs would be difficult.   

 

I assume you used a plywood template for each tread.  Your work shows no gaps and excellent craftsmanship.  Just scribe each end.  

 

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Not exactly.  The treads and risers are mortised into the stringers.  No stringers other than what also forms the skirt you see, and what you don't see under the surface, but still the same board.  Tread and riser mortises are tapered to accept a wedge behind each to drive them tight.  That's the only reason they are still this tight.  It can only be done with "housed stringers".  No scribed stairs can fit this tight long term.  The risers also fit into a dado under each tread.

 

Graham has a picture on a thread here of his Dad routing a housed stringer with a commercial template. 

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I've got that book.   :wacko:    

 

You install the risers against the carriage and then you cut and fit the skirt in place, over the already installed risers.  

You then shim between the carriage and riser to get the tight fit.

 

Probably less work than routing the skirt and shimming the risers and treads into the skirt.  But how to attach the treads?  

 

Now for the treads.  You scribe both ends to fit the treads.  

There is no mention of how to attach them.

 

Norm installs the treads by going to the back of the already installed riser and screwing into the end of the tread.  

Then he puts three rows of nails into the top of the tread, attaching it to the stringer.  

 

How do you both feel about this? 

My feeling... routing the skirt seems complicated.    

I'd have to try it with a plywood template first because I wouldn't know how to measure for it and it seems like a lot of work.  And then you have the dado under the tread.  I can see screwing that up.   :unsure:

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I've got that book.   :wacko:    

 

:lol:.

 

At least we have some common ground then. Page 16 Cross section of Tread to Riser joint.

 

Page 78 to 81 gives a good description of what's needed I think with the picture at the top of page 80 getting to grips with what you want. If you wanted to hide the fixings I would screw and glue a block of wood to the outside of the carriage piece with it almost completely filling the gap between carriage and wall. You can then hide your end fixings underneath the skirt once it's fitted. For any visible fixings you need to do screw and plug. I would also put some adhesive between carriage and tread. My choice would be polyurethane glue. Hope that helps?

 

That book is a lot of fun. 

 

TRBaker would be good on this too I think, perhaps drop him a PM

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I build the whole house, so I assemble a run of stairs completely, put it in place against the far wall, build the separating wall, and landing, and then the next run of stairs, followed by it's handrail and wall.  Inspectors ask me questions like, "How'd you get that pipe in that wall?"  I say, I put it in there when I built the wall.

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:lol:.

 

At least we have some common ground then. Page 16 Cross section of Tread to Riser joint.

 

Page 78 to 81 gives a good description of what's needed I think with the picture at the top of page 80 getting to grips with what you want. If you wanted to hide the fixings I would screw and glue a block of wood to the outside of the carriage piece with it almost completely filling the gap between carriage and wall. You can then hide your end fixings underneath the skirt once it's fitted. For any visible fixings you need to do screw and plug. I would also put some adhesive between carriage and tread. My choice would be polyurethane glue. Hope that helps?

 

That book is a lot of fun. 

 

TRBaker would be good on this too I think, perhaps drop him a PM

 

Thanks G, for taking the time to look at the book and reference it.   :)

 

The cross section on pg 16, I wonder if that bullnose is serving no other purpose than to help secure the riser...ha, ha.  

Because I'd rather route a bullnose on the tread and prevent a seam on top.  Did you notice the guy is using plywood for treads!  

 

Instead of using screws and plugs I've seen carpenters use figure 8 fasteners.  

Half the 8 is secured on top of the riser, the other half you screw to the tread from underneath.  

The tread overhangs to hide the faster underneath.  

 

I could route a dado near the bottom of each riser to accept a rabbet milled on each tread.  

Then you have a clean tread top with no fasteners.

 

The skirt is installed over the already installed risers to keep it locked in.

So I'd have to make a tread-template to see if the tread's rabbet is in line with the dado on the installed riser.

 

It seems to work in theory.  

Anyone see flaws in my quackery?

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I build the whole house, so I assemble a run of stairs completely, put it in place against the far wall, build the separating wall, and landing, and then the next run of stairs, followed by it's handrail and wall.  Inspectors ask me questions like, "How'd you get that pipe in that wall?"  I say, I put it in there when I built the wall.

Tom, I can't do that.   :rolleyes:

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Thanks G, for taking the time to look at the book and reference it.   :)

 

The cross section on pg 16, I wonder if that bullnose is serving no other purpose than to help secure the riser...ha, ha.  

Because I'd rather route a bullnose on the tread and prevent a seam on top.  Did you notice the guy is using plywood for treads!  

 

Instead of using screws and plugs I've seen carpenters use figure 8 fasteners.  

Half the 8 is secured on top of the riser, the other half you screw to the tread from underneath.  

The tread overhangs to hide the faster underneath.  

 

I could route a dado near the bottom of each riser to accept a rabbet milled on each tread.  

Then you have a clean tread top with no fasteners.

 

The skirt is installed over the already installed risers to keep it locked in.

So I'd have to make a riser-template-overlay to see if the tread's rabbet is in line with the dado on the riser.

 

It seems to work in theory.  

Anyone see flaws in my quackery?

No worries  :). I say just push the button on it, can't beat a bit of learning by doing and your plan does not sound qaucky.

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If you have to scribe and fit each riser and tread, I'd make a jig to capture the fit and transfer it to the pieces.  You can't fit any piece too tight by any amount, or it will open up the piece below it.  I've done them like that using plywood, t-nuts, and knobs to make the jig, mark with sharp pencil, and cut with a handsaw.  I don't think it's the kind of job anyone can do well with a miter saw.  I saw a famous person installing scribed stairs on TV a short while back, and I would have been ashamed with the gaps left.

 

I didn't watch this video, but the gauge he's holding at the beginning looks like what I was talking about making out of plywood.  http://oakstairwayremodel.com/how-to-make-a-stair-tread-gauge/  

Something that serves the purpose like this:  http://shop.thestairtool.com/product.sc?productId=2&categoryId=1

 

I finally had to build the stairs in my house when my wife was pregnant enough not to want to climb the step ladder.  We had been married two years-has been 33 now.  I ask every plumber I meet if they have a bucket under a sink at home, and not one yet has said no.

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When I first encountered this type of stair it was not referenced as a housed stair and included "wedge" in the moniker and I cannot recall how it was labeled. Is housed stair the only way these stairs are called? This engineering is considered to be the pinnacle of achievement for the old German trade "cabinet makers" as a "knock down" yet incredibly tight and reliable stair. Once agin I have found respect for those of you who build stairs in this way.

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When I first encountered this type of stair it was not referenced as a housed stair and included "wedge" in the moniker and I cannot recall how it was labeled. Is housed stair the only way these stairs are called? This engineering is considered to be the pinnacle of achievement for the old German trade "cabinet makers" as a "knock down" yet incredibly tight and reliable stair. Once agin I have found respect for those of you who build stairs in this way.

 

This is the only way I've seen it done if the stairs are open on one end, as in Tom's example.

Does it matter if it's an open end stair or a stairs between 2 walls?  Or is the method superior in both cases?     

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They go anywhere other stringers can go, including between walls.  I built one set with housed risers, and the treads were hinged for storage inside the steps.  Those did not have a wall underneath, but the underside was covered with T&G boards.  Unfortunately, I don't have many pictures of stuff I built for 35 years.

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