Freddie Posted October 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 I am fascinated by the thicker blade and no chipbreaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 I dont think that cap irons/chip breakers have very much effect with the supper fine shavings an infill smoother makes. Without a cap iron/chip breaker the blade is beefed up to avoid flex and chatter (I think)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted October 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 Graham, the end of your post basically answered the beginning of your post 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 I'm Incoherent again! Point One - Cap Iron reduces tearout on shavings around the 0.5mm range and larger by compressing the shaving at the cut (at least wilburs vid made me think that). The Cap iron effect is reduced a lot when shavings are less than 0.5mm Point Two - With no cap iron the blade needs beefing up as the cap iron a makes thinner blades more rigid to avoid chatter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 The cap iron does reduce tearout at multiple depths of cut, thick and thin, if you set if properly, and it does much more than simply reduce the need for a thick blade. They existed and were used well before stanley and other companies started making thinner blades. Though you are correct that they do allow you to get away with a thinner blade. When set properly a cap iron bends the chip in a way that prevents tearout in the same way a high angle of attack does. However, the cap iron is one of several ways to reduce tearout and it doesn't usually vibe well with the super tight mouth. You sorta need to pick your poison. A thick single iron, a tight mouth, and/or a high angle certainly createsa highly effective tool as evidenced by high end infills, as well as modern BU planes. As far as acting on super thin shavings. Yes a cap iron can do that, if you set it close enough, but that's not really its best use. Ideally, a cap iron allows you to avoid tearout without having to take super thin shavings, allowing you to work faster, something a super tight mouth does not allow you to do. Again, it is simply one means to an end, and there are multiple ways to that end, but it is a means to an end that is available and will work on just about any run of the mill bailey style plane one has. There is a certain elegance to the straight forwardness and simplicity of single iron planes, and I am not meaning to discount that. All this is only to say that the cap iron can act on the shaving and reduce/prevent tearout and multiple thickness....I encourage everyone to try it for themselves, it really does work in at multiple settings. (also, I love sammiches as well ) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 That's loads better than what I said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 That's loads better than what I said Gee thanks. I was worried it would come of as preachy...glad it made sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted October 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Too much writing, I just skimmed through it, well at least im honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Too much writing, I just skimmed through it, well at least im honest It's worth the read. Good info for plane geeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Gee thanks. I was worried it would come of as preachy...glad it made sense. No way! I worry about the same thing myself a lot of the time. Thankfully this forum is populated by decent souls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted October 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Mel, call me up and read it to me please! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Mel, call me up and read it to me please! I don't do bedtime stories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Didn't miss much Freddie. There's really no reason to listen to me. If I were half as good at actual woodworking as I am at plane geekery and talking about plane geekery....well lets just say I'd be a better woodworker. Anywho, thought I'd post a link to a video that to some extent show a chipbreaker in action. The vid wasn't actually intended to show the use of the capiron. It was a video that I posted on my other forum just for the sake of showing off a plane I was excited about. BUT, if you skip to about 3:25 you can to some extent see the capiron acting on the shaving. Notice that the shaving shoots somewhat straight up and out vs. curling up in the throat. Of course, what the shaving looks like can vary depending on the wood and other stuff going on in the throat, but generally, if I'm get a smooth cut, with that kind of ejection, I feel confident the cap iron is working. In this case the setting of the iron and the depth of cut is making the cap iron just begin to act on the chip. Its far enough back that I could deepen the cut a good but more w/o having to adjust the cap iron. I don't know what the measurments are in this video in terms of thickness of shaving but I'd guess its probably similar to what is seen in the Kato video...about a .002" shaving with the CB set back probably about .008". That's a rough guess based on the distance I estimate I *typically* keep things setup. Also, note the surface of the wood at the end of the video. I am planing an off cut of hard maple that has some birdseye and some curl. Its not a terribly difficult piece of wood to plane, but I don't work stuff a lot more difficult than that really. Anyway, you'll notice its tearout free both in the figure and around the ugly knot in the board. You could easily get the same result just paying attention to grain direction and and taking a lighter cut...but the cap iron pretty much lets me plane boards like that any which way, and taker a thicker shaving than I would otherwise be able too. This is all with the original blade and cap iron btw. Here's the vid (fyi its a total crap cell phone vid): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04vI3c7vzwI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 No way! I worry about the same thing myself a lot of the time. Thankfully this forum is populated by decent souls Stop shoving your moralistic ideals down my throat. Goshhhhh. *sarcasm* One of my favorite video series to watch is yours, when you have time to post them. Very informative, and easy to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted October 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Cool video chris! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Cool video chris! Thanks. Best of all watching it didn't require you to read. Though I am sorta suprised you managed to filter through all the stuff I wrote above the link and then actually find the video. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted October 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Cuz the link is bright blue! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Hey Sam, thanks for the love bro . Chris, thanks for posting the vid, I really like seeing what people are up to in their shops in this "reality" type way. Have you seen the cap iron research video? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Have you seen the cap iron research video? Sure have! Great video! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 I was just looking through the hand plane prices for fun. Only thing that came to mind was a familiar song. Something like this: MY MIND IS TELLIN ME YESSSS. BUT MY CHECK BOOK. MY CHECK BOOK. IS TELLIN ME NOOO OH OH OH. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 I don't see nothing wrong, with a pricey heavy bronze planer! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted October 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 I love my bronze no.4, I'm probably gonna marry it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted October 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 Aside from cost and weight, unless I missed something, why hasn't lie nielsen offered their larger bench planes in the manganese bronze? I know there are many others like me that would buy them for their pure lusciousness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 Aside from cost and weight, unless I missed something, why hasn't lie nielsen offered their larger bench planes in the manganese bronze? I know there are many others like me that would buy them for their pure lusciousness They have made some as special limited ones. Like the bronze 4 1/2. If they made it normally, it would take away from it being special. I would much prefer to have all of my planes bronze. Doesn't rust! plus they look sexy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted October 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 If they came out right now Mel, they'd already be in the shopping cart! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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