Shane Jimerfield Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 I'm about to make some battens for the bottom of a table top. I'm going to use Maple battens for the Sugar Pine top. I'm wondering about the orientation of the grain to get the most rigidity. Intuition tells me to have the grain vertical. I've never studied wood strengths so I don't know what the science is on the topic. Any help would be appreciated. Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 Grain running horizontal to the bottom or the table top would be the strongest think of a floor joist or a beam carrying a load your batten is carrying the load of the table top and whatever is on top. If the grain was vertical the batten would just split under a load. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Have a read of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Jimerfield Posted April 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm talking flat sawn vs. quarter sawn.Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk HD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 I don't think there would be enough difference to worry about, that being said strength wise I would say if the growth rings were going up and down that would be the strongest. Sorry if I read your original post wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Apologies ShaneJ, I completely misunderstood. I'm just going outside now to give myself a good slap 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Jimerfield Posted April 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I'm sure wars have been started for less. Please no slapping. Clearly I wasn't clear in the first posting. I did like the tables on wood strengths. Based on that study in that they did not differentiate according to flat or vertical sawn I'm guessing you're right that the difference is probably too small to matter. It would be an interesting bit of knowledge though.I never new hickory was so badass. I'm used to the term CVG and thus I used vertical to describe the grain orientation. And it seems that you agree vertical would be best...the rings that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Think of the way an I-beam is constructed and the physics of it...it will flex more in one orientation than the other...similar physics with grain. So you'd want the grain to be "vertical" so that its structure is optimized for support. That said, I agree with the above that it probably matters little, unless you're trying to make these battens very thin for some reason. You'll reach a certain thickness where there's enough "stiffness" in either orientation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombarde16 Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 In total abstraction, sure you'd go for the flatsawn board for maximum stiffness on the table top.In practice, a tiny increase in the size of said batten will completely trump any difference between quarter or flatsawn stock. Moreover, if you intend to subject the finished table to such punishment and insult that you're concerned about how the grain is oriented in the batten, you don't want to use pine for the top.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgewaterWW Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Have a read of this. I like Dave's post also, A bit larger source on wood hardness is the Wood Database. Like this info on Sugar Pine http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/sugar-pine/ My 2 cents, maybe helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Jimerfield Posted May 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 I was not all that concerned, these boards have been air drying for over 20 yrs. They are probably quite stable. It was more just a curiosity. In the end I made the batons out of sugar pine as well. The whole thing actually.I started the finish yesterday. Base/seal coat of shellac. Never tried to coat a large table top with shellac before. Damn that was stressful, stuff sets so quickly I couldn't even get from one end to the other in 6" wide attempts before it started drying and getting all sticky and stuff. Required extra sanding, and lots of clogged paper. Thinning to half cut for second application, and hoping for just a light sanding before the wipe on poly.Pics coming soon in the project thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombarde16 Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 Clogged and corned up paper suggested that your shellac is past it's prime or you didn't let it dry long enough.Looking forward to the pictures.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Jimerfield Posted May 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 I was unaware that shellac had a shelf life. I got a can of seal coat Zinsser from my local HW store. Who knows how long it's been there.Pics are posted in another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombarde16 Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 Indeed, once shellac flakes are dissolved in alcohol, the clock is ticking. Apart from that and its unsuitability for use on a bar top that might get splashed with vodka, though, I'd happily defend it against all comers as the single greatest wood finish ever. For your next table top (assuming you still have a lot of shellac left in that can) try wet sanding with soapy water. Sand the bare wood to a moderate grit, then build up a strong coat of shellac. If you accidentally drag the brush through a sticky part, don't fret. Give it a day or two to harden then move the table outside. Put a sheet of at least 220 grit or higher on your sander and mix a heavy squirt of dish soap into a cup of water. Slosh some soap solution on the table and sand lightly. (You'll see why I told you to move outside...) Rinse with a garden hose, towel off and then run your fingers over a jaw-dropping smooth surface. You'll be hooked for life at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Jimerfield Posted May 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 I'm having a hard time imagining taking a hose to one of my projects. Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Indeed, once shellac flakes are dissolved in alcohol, the clock is ticking. Apart from that and its unsuitability for use on a bar top that might get splashed with vodka, though, I'd happily defend it against all comers as the single greatest wood finish ever. I'm with you one the shellac bandwagon. If spilled alcoholic beverages are a concern, I find that a single coat of poly, thinned 50% with mineral spirits and wiped on with a cotton cloth, will go a long way in protecting from spills, yet alter the appearance of that wonderfully smooth shellac very little, or not at all. Best thing about building the finish with shellac and applying a single coat of thinned poly is that the surface can go from bare wood to ready for use in just a day or two. Spray lacquer is the only thing I've seen done as quickly, but it tends to leave a glossier, more 'plastic' look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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