Adding 220


RJsumthn

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I know this gets asked a lot and I've looked for answers but I can't find anything consistent. I am thinking of adding 220 to the shop but I don't know if the panel will support it. We have a 200 amp panel and there are no more slots to add any extra circuits. We have two sets of washers and dryers in the house and 2 full size refrigerators. I know that you can get those double breakers that allow you to put 2 circuits in one slot but is there a max number of circuits you should put in a panel. I added it up at one point and the total amperage on the breakers added up to be like 360 or 380 which seems high to me, i don't know if that number even has any relevance. So is it possible and within code to add more circuits to this panel without upgrading to a 400 amp main panel?

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It is assumed that you will never max a 200 amp breaker through normal usage. 200 amp panels are popular because this allows a lot of isolation for devices that might pop a 15 amp on start up if two items startup at the same time. You can get an electrician to do a wattage based study of your demand (I believe there is also code that determines how much more than 200 your total slots can total.) in your house but without this I can tell you what I see a lot. I see a lot of 70 sub panels pulled out of 200 amp panels. There might be some reassignment necessary to get the space clear in your main panel but it can be done.

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You're never likely to run every circuit at once so adding them up has no relevance. If you have no room left in your main panel you can add a sub panel by using one of your current 220 breaker slots to feed it. Then feed the 220 appliance that you obsconded from the sub.

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I know we do pull a lot of power. My grandma lives in the basement then its my parents and then me. So it is common to have the washers and dryers going at the same time, 3 tv's on, the 2 big fridges + the mini fridge, the oven, then 2 hairdryers, then my woodworking tools. 

 

Janello, I didn't think of using an existing 220 breaker. That might be a good option.

 

Mike, I'd love to take over the basement and turn it into my apartment/woodshop but that won't happens unless something happens to my grandma which better not happen anytime soon since her cooking is amazing!!! She's the main reason I still live with my parents. That and the fact that I don't make enough money to afford a place myself and afford to woodwork. I'm hoping woodworking turns a profit here before too long.

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The challenge with electrics is that there is a broad spectrum of choices from what you can do to what you should do… Any solution tends to be a compromise. The issue is that there is significant down-side risk to making the wrong choice … The trick is to find the compromise that solves the problem, but manages the down-side…
 
The short answer: sure, you can add double breakers. They're certainly within code, but I personally don’t like them and believe that a panel full of double breakers is a red flag… In short, I'm against double-breakers as a long-term solution -- a stop-gap until some renovation is completed is AOK and you can solve a short-term problem, but not long-term... A sub-panel is certainly a valid choice and so is a new 400a panel (your service probably supports it). You could also switch major appliances to natural gas and shed load (very popular these days – because gas is incredibly cheap and the $$ savings can pay for the conversion in about two years)…
 
The challenge for the homeowner is that these solutions are all possible, but which one is best? Or at least, which one is not the worst…
 
My advice: hire an electrician for an initial consult… Many won’t even charge you (if they get the job)… I would suggest that this is the only acceptable first step. I don’t know your circumstance, but unless your residence is fairly substantial and requires three AC compressors and two furnaces for environmental control, it’s unusual to max-out a 200a panel. I get the extra washer/dryer and fridge/freezers, but that normally wouldn't explain it. If you've got a bunch of other load (pool, hot tub, jacuzzi, driveway heater, home theater system, et al), then yea, I get it...
 
Get the electrician and evaluate your options...
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RJ, I'm just another supporter of getting yourself that 220V hook up. You will not be disappointed. I only have two 220V tools, my table saw and jointer, but I can tell a huge difference when running these tools as compared to the 110V ones at my parent's house.

 

You open yourself up to so many more options of tool purchasing power. Stock up on some ramen noodles, and plop down the money for this new electrical service. Treat yourself, you know you want to ;)

 

EDIT:

Let me say, though, I was in a different boat than you. I'm in a basement where the panel is only 3/4 full, and the run from my shop to the panel is 15ft. Was an easy solution for me, but I understand yours is a bit more complicated.

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My house only has a 100 amp main panel.  I had my buddy run a 50 amp sub-panel, and I have my entire shop working off of that, minus the lights.  You're fine.  Like Trip said, call an electrician...they'll know how to fix you up.  This isn't something you should mess with yourself.  I know a lot of guys think they know everything and they refuse to call a professional because either they're too cheap or their pride will get all butt-hurt.  I'm pretty handy...and I draw the line at electricity.  Call a pro.

 

Good decision on the upgrade, though...I know you've been fighting it a long time.  It's a losing battle...any pro shop or serious hobbyist shop must have 220, IMO...no way around it.

 

Got my shipping confirmation this morning, too. :)

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RJ, I have an in-law suit in the basement, 220 dryer, 220 oven, 220 microwave. 4 refrigerators in the house, 220 hot tub, pool motor, tiki bar with kegulator and two refers outside, 7 tv's and my shop all running on a 200 amp service.. It's a damn hotel! I never trip a breaker.

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GE Advantium. I call it the Super Nuker.

I just read some reviews online. Seems like a lot of people are having issues right after the warranty expires. I like the idea of the thaw/ cook cycles but the multiple poor service complaints are enough to make me wonder.

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My parents invited my grandparents to live with us when I was a baby and my sister was 5 and it has been/is fantastic. The deal was that they were my babysitter and my grandma would cook dinners and they could live with us rent free. I couldn't imagine growing up without my dad's "in-laws" living in the basement.

 

I will just have to get an electrician here to estimate adding a sub panel and running the lines to the garage. I feel I can do the boxes, conduit, and wiring after that. 

 

For those of you that have a sub-panel for your shop, what do you have on each circuit? Do you have the lights on one, then one for dust collection, then one or 2 for tools?

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Keep lights and receptacles on separate circuits. Avoid having 2 motors that start together ( like maybe a planer & DC) on the same circuit. Otherwise, it shouldn't matter much. Heck, during power outages I run my whole house from a 4.5 kw genny with a single 20 amp breaker output. Everything but the oven and range, at least. Never tripped that 20 yet.

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Hey RJ, thought I could add my two cents here. I just went through something similar converting my unattached two stall garage into my shop. I have a 200 amp main panel in the basement of the house. There was one 15 amp circuit running to the shop which powered some lights, three 110v outlets and the garage door opener. I dug my own trench to save some money and had an electrician install a 100 amp subpanel in the shop. Once that was in, I did all of the actual outlet wiring and breaker installation.

 

To answer your question about what is on each circuit: I have all of my overhead lights and a ceiling fan on their own circuit. Then each wall has five 110v outlets on their own 20 amp circuits. Each wall has one 220v outlet on its own 30amp circuit. If your city's code allows, you can put more than one 220v tool on a single circuit. For example, a 220v table saw and a 220v jointer could be on the same circuit. Some people don't like that idea but for a one man shop I don't see an issue. You're never going to be running your TS and jointer at the same time. However, definitely keep your dust collector on its own circuit. I also ran an additional strip of 110v outlets along the ceiling down the middle of the shop.

 

Sorry to ramble, but I hope this helps! Feel free to message me if you want to talk over some of your options.

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