Kevmc Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 I want to be ready for the glue up. What glue should I get. I see all kinds of recommendations from titebond to unibond 800 urea formaldehyde glue. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Not sure what Marc used but, I would use Titebond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 on facebook Marc mentioned Unibond 800 and Dap weldwood plastic resin glue. I am going to use the Dap i think. i love the idea of the working time. talk about stress free glue up. my only problem in maintaining the 70 degree minimum temperature. i might be running the heater a little unless 70 only has to be maintained during the set time. I thought i would mix a lite today and test on some scrap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Electric blanket if you need to keep the temp up. Curved work that might spring back or allow the laminations to creep really need a more ridgid glue line than Titebond will provide. I have had good luck w Titebond on flat work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 As mentioned above, my recommendations are DAP Weldwood and Unibond 800. Many people, who I have great respect for, use titebond for their laminations. William Ng uses Elmer's white glue. But to me, the idea behind the rigidity of a plastic resin glue makes the most sense. But I have to make sure you know that plenty of experienced woodworkers are using standard wood glue. That said, the biggest reason NOT to use Titebond on this project is the open time. Like Brian mentioned, you really want this to be a stress-free glueup and it takes time to assemble the form properly. Rushing almost never works out in your favor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Thanks or the heating blanket idea! I just need a little heat first thing in the morning or wait until mid morning before i do the glue up. Looking on DAP's website at 80 and 90 degrees the glue sets a lot quicker. A few hours under a hating blanket might be the ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 ==>plenty of experienced woodworkers are using standard wood glue. Choice of laminate adhesive boils-down to cost, open-time and how much spring-back the lamination can tolerate (and how much you can manage effectively). If the lamination can withstand some spring-back and you don't need long open-time, then a PVA is fine. However, if the lamination can't afford spring-back, you lack the experience to manage spring-back or the glue-up requires longer open-times, then PVA is a very bad idea... That's not to say you can't use a PVA on a Morris Chair build, but then you've got to manage the laminate's tendency to return to its original unbent shape (spring-back), long-term adhesive creep (tendency for a laminate under load -- you know, the actual bending part -- to de-laminate) and have your ducks in-a-row for the glue-up. So why do some experienced pros use PVA anyway? Well, first of all, they have the skill/experience to manage spring-back... And secondly, UF/UFR adhesives have a few ever-so-small shortcomings --- they are expensive, have a short shelf life, are very messy, hard to clean-up, very very tough on edge tools and reasonably toxic -- other than that, they're great -- and oh yea, they cause cancer... To avoid some of the down-sides associated with UF/UFR adhesives, you can go resin without the formaldehyde: PPR, LPR and the rest of the RG club (think UltraCat). You get most of the benefits of a UF, but in a more user-friendly format (less toxic, water clean-up). David Marks used a PPR extensively in his WoodWorks series... Oh yea, they also cause cancer... But only in California The other choice is laminating epoxy. West 207 is the standard laminating adhesive in marine applications. Gougeon also makes a similar adhesive for aerospace applications (temp ranges, durability). W-207 is an excellent laminating adhesive, has colorants, blockers, release agents, etc... It also largely avoids the shop-temp problems associated with UF and PPR adhesives (see below)*... And yea, they cause cancer as well... So why might you still choose a PVA? Well, you could easily consume $30 in just adhesive for a single Morris chair... And the remaining adhesive has a 6-month shelf life... So that $30 could end-up being $50. Quite frankly, cost is the primary factor for folks using PVA... So why doesn't everyone just use PVA, manage spring-back and avoid all the down-sides... Well, first of all, UF/PPR/PRG/etc and Epoxy are gap-filling adhesives with looooong open times... One of the things you learn when laminating, gap-filling can save your ass... Bent lamination glue-ups are stress-filled and something usually falls-through-the-cracks. Secondly, you need real experience to effectively manage spring-back and limit long-term adhesive creep (which is usually the reason bent laminates fail over time). If I was building-along, I'd use either Unibond (because you can get purpose-made colorants to match your species, release-agents and blockers) or UltraCat (assortment of available colorants and you don't need blockers). In reality, I'd just use whatever is sitting on the shelf with the shortest use-by-date and make it work... If the chair was going outdoors, I'd use W-207. *Shop Temp: Most UF and PPR adhesives require a shop temp above 70dF --- and many prefer 75dF and above. A space heater, electric blanket, heating pad, etc are usually employed to keep things cooking along... NOTE: Today's electric blankets don't get as warm as those made even a few years ago. In addition, they have auto shut-offs (those pesky liability lawyers hard at work)... Your best bet would be a used blanket from eBay... ==>90 degrees the glue sets a lot quicker. A few hours under a hating blanket might be the ticket There's a window of acceptable temperatures. Too high a temp gives too fast a cure --- laminate will crack/fail. More heat is not always a good thing. So if your in Phoenix, you might need to watch mid-day temps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevmc Posted June 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Many thanks for the advice, especial HHH. I really appreciate the time spent responding. if i decide to use a vacuum press, I am ok with unbind or DAP, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 ==> if i decide to use a vacuum press, I am ok with unbind or DAP, right? Depends on the species. If open grained, I'd go UltraCat to avoid the hassle of mixing a blocking agent. If closed grained, then it depends on color... Last time I looked, Unibond had more colorants than DAP --- but that was a while ago... Most mid-tone species are good-to-go from the can... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevmc Posted June 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 I am using cherry so you think I can just use unibond medium and that should be good from a color perspective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 ==>cherry so you think I can just use unibond medium Yea, it's going to be real close... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 So you know Kev, tomorrow's video starts with a discussion about the glue and my reasons for using the material I used. Might help fill in some blanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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