Guest Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Regarding 4/4 vs 5/4 stock, I think it just depends on how thick the stock actually is. My local dealer surfaces 4/4 stock down to an actual 3/4", but it is rarely flat enough to use. After jointing I am down to 11/16" or even 5/8" in a hurry. So when I buy from him I almost always need to buy 5/4 stock. The mill and wholesale distributors I but from each sell 4/4" at about 1 1/8" rough sawn. Yielding flat 3/4"+ is never a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwk5017 Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 6 hours ago, Mike. said: Regarding 4/4 vs 5/4 stock, I think it just depends on how thick the stock actually is. My local dealer surfaces 4/4 stock down to an actual 3/4", but it is rarely flat enough to use. After jointing I am down to 11/16" or even 5/8" in a hurry. So when I buy from him I almost always need to buy 5/4 stock. The mill and wholesale distributors I but from each sell 4/4" at about 1 1/8" rough sawn. Yielding flat 3/4"+ is never a problem. Fairly or unfairly, if my 8/4 isnt 2 1/8+" i get cranky. Same goes for 4/4. After I got home last night i started walking around and measuring board ends poking out of my rack. I have plenty of 4/4 boards at 1 1/8", so getting the 1" parts shouldnt be a major concern. Loud and clear on doing both at the same time! Maybe I will do myself a favor and do one cherry and one walnut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstandi1 Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 11 hours ago, Mike. said: Regarding 4/4 vs 5/4 stock, I think it just depends on how thick the stock actually is. My local dealer surfaces 4/4 stock down to an actual 3/4", but it is rarely flat enough to use. After jointing I am down to 11/16" or even 5/8" in a hurry. So when I buy from him I almost always need to buy 5/4 stock. The mill and wholesale distributors I but from each sell 4/4" at about 1 1/8" rough sawn. Yielding flat 3/4"+ is never a problem. I'm not sure I would buy from a dealer that surfaces any thickness down a whole 1/4". For 4/4 stock that is literally a 25% loss that you are paying for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 The mill I buy from sells 4/4 dressed to 3/4" for retail customers and 13/16 for pro shops. They sell us rough if we want it as well. Their planer does 2 sides at once then the boards are sent through the straight line rip saw. They can't just switch the thickness for every board. The thicker they plane 4/4 stock the more boards are left with rough patches. That's called hit and miss. My guess is the boards that are hit and miss at 13/16 get planed to 3/4. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 10 hours ago, cstandi1 said: I'm not sure I would buy from a dealer that surfaces any thickness down a whole 1/4". For 4/4 stock that is literally a 25% loss that you are paying for. They're providing a service. It's called milling. That way you don't have to do it yourself, ya know? Just cut your boards up and build your cabinets. Most cabinet guys prefer this. Hobbyist furnituremakers do not. I totally agree that 3/4" boards are disadvantageous to us because we like to mill our boards and start fresh at the beginning of a project. But if you just wanna roll your stock out of the back of the truck and have a couple dozen doors and face frames made by the end of the day, then pre-milled is the way to go. Try to keep perspective at the lumberyard. Why does everyone think they're out to screw you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeventyFix Posted August 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 16 hours ago, Pwk5017 said: Loud and clear on doing both at the same time! Maybe I will do myself a favor and do one cherry and one walnut. If you want one chair in walnut and the other in cherry then by all means, go for it. The disadvantage is that you will need to have 2 sets of lumber. Run a little low on cherry and the walnut doesn't help you (and vise versa). I was working with a friend who was making 4 Morris chairs (he's a pro with a full time shop). Three chairs were to be made in cherry and one in white oak. Any mistakes made to the oak chair were really irritating as we didn't have as much oak to choose from. Of course this all means nothing if you have a barn full of material. I work out of a 2 car garage. When I start a project, I calculate how much material I need and buy about 25% extra. In general, I end up going back to the mill and buying one more board before the job is done. I'm in TX and frequently buy from Horizon in PA; I don't usually see the boards before they're delivered. From now on, I'm going to buy 25% extra PLUS one good-sized board! Depends how picky you are as well. Do you include sap wood in your projects? Sometimes the sap wood can be quite attractive (I remember a table top that Marc made that contained cherry sap wood - it was very nice). I chose to cut all of the sap wood out for the Morris chair build. I kept most of the sap wood cut offs because they just so happened to be in one of the most figured boards that I bought. I'll use them for something one day (saying this while hoping to avoid becoming a wood hoarder). I will also remake parts if I am not satisfied with them. I don't mind spending extra time and materials. For me, this is just a hobby and I enjoy making the chairs. I want them to be as perfect as possible when they're complete. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Eric. said: They're providing a service. It's called milling. That way you don't have to do it yourself, ya know? Just cut your boards up and build your cabinets. Most cabinet guys prefer this. Hobbyist furnituremakers do not. I totally agree that 3/4" boards are disadvantageous to us because we like to mill our boards and start fresh at the beginning of a project. But if you just wanna roll your stock out of the back of the truck and have a couple dozen doors and face frames made by the end of the day, then pre-milled is the way to go. Try to keep perspective at the lumberyard. Why does everyone think they're out to screw you? With all the regulation on Wall Street , its well known the only way to get rich screwing people is to open a lumberyard Owl, the retailer here, must know what they are doing. They have 3 locations and are always busy, mostly selling to small cabinet shops and remodelers - half the store is dedicated to S2S lumber but they sell far more sheet goods, S4S and moldings. They are the only real hardwood retailer in the entire chicago area (7mln people) so their model must work (there are 3 or 4 big distributors too, if you want to buy 100bd ft+ site unseen). If Owl surfaces to 3/4" its for exactly the reasons you cited.... it is what their customers want. Personally I only go there for exotics or for convenience. They are 10 minutes from my house and open Saturday/Sunday, so are super convenient when I need just a couple boards to finish a project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstandi1 Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 I wasn't necessarily thinking lumber yards are always out to screw anyone. I wasn't aware anyone would want something that pre-milled for hardwoods. Do cabinet makers consider that flat enough, straight from the yard? Just seems like a lot of wood movement to still deal with you start to break boards down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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