Plane back flattening diagnosis - Cant get the tip

[HunterL]

See photo, I've been working this plane blade back on my DMT 400 grit a LOT, I can't seem to touch the tip as you can see in the photo. Any advice? I feel that I'm applying even pressure, should i try the thin shim technique to "flatten" only that portion all the way at the tip? Thanks

[Tom King]

Looks like that one has already seen too much of the "ruler trick". It always seemed an unnecessary step to me anyway.   Is it for a plane that has a chip breaker-looks like a block plane iron?

[Jim Harvey]

That's a sign that the previous owner used a buffing wheel to polish the back edge. I'd go with ruler trickery. When I use the ruler, I write something on the iron withh a marker to remind me the next time I'm deburring the back.

[Jfitz]

Is that a new plane or a new blade? It looks like the ruler trick was already used on it. Or also maybe just bad sharpening. Based on the scratch patterns, you have a LOT of work to do if you want to fix that by flattening the whole back. I'd say using the ruler trick would work, or grinding a whole new bevel so that you essentially just remove that whole end of the blade back to where it seems flat.   

[Fred Belanger]

I'd grind it back to beyond the area that isn't flat, being careful not to burn it.

Then primary bevel it back to the deg you want, secondairy bevel it, and depending on how you feel about the ruler trick, then do the ruler trick to remove the burr and get it sharp.

Don't give up and give us feedback on how it went!

[HunterL]

I grinded back past that area in the picture, now I'm having trouble getting a mirror finish! Its looking almost cloudy, it's really sticking to the stones

[wtnhighlander]

What is highest grit you are using?

[HunterL]

16 minutes ago, wtnhighlander said:

What is highest grit you are using?

I just finished on the 5000 grit stone when I took the picture, and before that on the 1000, and the 400 grit DMT

[Eric.]

Keep going.   I'd go to 8000 at least...you won't get a mirror finish at 5k.  8k is the sweet spot.  Anything beyond 8k I find superfluous in woodworking...IMO.  And there's a lot of "O" when it comes to sharpening.  I think frequency of honing is more important than getting into astronomically high grits.  Keep your 8k stone nearby and touch it up often.  I watched a Tommy Mac video recently and he'd touch up his bevel on an extra extra fine diamond stone after every pin that he chiseled on a set of dovetails.  He just kept it at his bench within arm's reach and gave it two or three swipes, removed the burr, back to work.  Eye opening.

I think grinding back the bevel was the right move, but keep in mind that on a plane blade you only need to flatten the last quarter or half inch of the back.  Anything beyond that is just a waste of time...that surface area has zero impact on anything.  Chisels are a different story because the backs are a reference surface.  But that's not the case with plane blades.

[Jfitz]

It looks better! Eric has good advice above. 

[bgreenb]

3 hours ago, Eric. said:

  I watched a Tommy Mac video recently and he'd touch up his bevel on an extra extra fine diamond stone after every pin that he chiseled on a set of dovetails.  He just kept it at his bench within arm's reach and gave it two or three swipes, removed the burr, back to work.  Eye opening.

With a honing guide?  Or just freehand?

[Eric.]

4 minutes ago, bgreenb said:

With a honing guide?  Or just freehand?

Freehand.  As casually as he does everything else. LOL  He doesn't use a micro-bevel though so he's got the entire bevel to reference off of.

[drzaius]

1 hour ago, bgreenb said:

With a honing guide?  Or just freehand?

I am just no good at all freehand sharpening, but for quick honing, I have no problem. So if a klutz like me can do it...

[Guest Randy]

Whether you get a true mirror finish on either the back or the bevel may depend, to some degree, on what stones you are using. With some stones, even water stones, the final finish is never really as shiny as one would expect a mirror finish to be. I can't really tell from the picture, but does the back look like it still has noticeable scratches or is there no noticeable scratch pattern. I'd agree that taking it to 8000 is a good idea. That seems to be the grit that is required for real sharp tools. I don't believe that going beyond that really improves the sharpness so that it makes it worth it to buy the extra stone. After using the 8000 grit and sharpening the bevel, etc. try it. If it gives you the kind of performance that you expect, it's probably right even if the final finish isn't a shiny mirrored one. Others may have other experiences, but that's mine.

[Tom King]

Randy is right about some types of stones never giving a perfectly polished surface.

Without small steps between stone grit sizes, it takes Way too long for almost anyone to get all the scratches off of a back with any kind of stones.  What works okay for jumps between grits on a bevel doesn't take metal off of a back anywhere close to as fast as a bevel.  There is just too much surface area to be able to put the same pressure per square measure with fingers relative to the small surface area of a bevel.  It's really only necessary to get the surface close to the edge to the same level of finish as the bevel.  The cutting edge is a combination of the intersection of the back and bevel.  It doesn't work to have gaps from scratches on one side, but it only matters at the edge.  This is why the ruler trick works if you can't otherwise get the back, at the cutting edge, polished.

The investment in extra stones just isn't worth it for most hobbyists.  Three stone steps are plenty to get by with.  I did for decades only use three stones.

I first started filling in the gaps between stones specifically for doing backs, and found that the smaller steps made quicker work on bevels too, but I get to deduct what i spend on tools, so the payback is different for me than a little time saved in sharpening for the average woodworker.

I'm impressed that Tommy Mac has progressed beyond doing all the extra bevels on his chisels.

[Unknown craftsman]

One again I'm late on a sharpening thread.Im still going to share a technique I learned from David Finck.

The short stick really gives more pressure where it's needed much better than fingers.I usually start with my Diamond plate but you use a stone just be sure it's well supported so you don't break it in half.

[HunterL]

Thanks for all the great advice guys, there's always the Tormek as well... right?!