JimB1 Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 I decided to buy the SawStop. Deciding factors: 1. I have the money 2. Most of you guys say that the SS is one of (if not the) best TS's on the market 3. My musician son likes the idea 4. My wife says it is OK to spend $3000 on a Man-Toy, in this specific situation. :-) 5. The price of the brake is $70 now. Good luck with it. I don't think you'll be disappointed. It's a very solid saw regardless of the brake and I'd be very happy to have one. Let us know your impressions of it when you've gotten to use it for a little bit. -Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emccrory Posted February 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 The SawStop is being delivered tomorrow morning (Thursday Feb 10). I'll take some pictures and post an "Opening the box" account. I hope my very strong neighbor, who manages a restaurant, is home tomorrow morning to help get this thing into my basement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emccrory Posted February 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 Check out the "Sawstop Unpacking" gallery I have created, here. If the assembly is any indication of the quality of this saw, it is fantastic! I have never seen assembly instructions like this--they were written by really smart and caring people. It sure seems like some assembly instrcutions are translated through two or three foreign languages before they get to English, and some instrcutions seem to be for a different model (like the Harbor Freight dust collector I got in conjunction with the SawStop). But the SS instructions are incredible. Also, the quality of the pieces is outstanding--the screws, for example, are very high quality steel. And no part of the saw seems to need any special care in assembly--when you get the screws in the right place, it lines itself up perfectly. I have made a few cuts and it works perfectly, as expected. The thing is Q-U-I-E-T! The Harbor Freight DC is about five times louder than the SS--seriously! I can't wait to get the free-bee over-the-blade dust collector (rebate form is in the mail already). I wonder what is going to be like to have a TS that stays lined up when you adjust it, and makes square cuts. I think I will find out soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon003 Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 You're making the wrong comparison here. Comparing a Sawstop to a Grizzly is unfair to the Grizzly. You really should be comparing the Sawstop to a new Delta Unisaw or to a PM2000. The quality of construction on the Sawstop is far better than the average class of import asian machines like the Grizzly/Shop Fox/etc. I'm not elitist. I have several Grizzly machines in my shop, and I upgraded to the Sawstop from a G1023SL! Fit, Finish, Tolerance, and quality, the Sawstop is in a whole different class. From uncrating it from the box, the precise assembly instructions and the color coded bin-separated parts, the saw will introduce you to a whole different class of machine than you may be used to with a Grizzly or other asian import. So, if you want an apples to apples comparison, try a PM2000, at what seems to retail in the 2400 range along with the new unisaw, and you're in the same ballpark as the Sawstop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimB1 Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 You're making the wrong comparison here. Comparing a Sawstop to a Grizzly is unfair to the Grizzly. You really should be comparing the Sawstop to a new Delta Unisaw or to a PM2000. The quality of construction on the Sawstop is far better than the average class of import asian machines like the Grizzly/Shop Fox/etc. I'm not elitist. I have several Grizzly machines in my shop, and I upgraded to the Sawstop from a G1023SL! Fit, Finish, Tolerance, and quality, the Sawstop is in a whole different class. From uncrating it from the box, the precise assembly instructions and the color coded bin-separated parts, the saw will introduce you to a whole different class of machine than you may be used to with a Grizzly or other asian import. So, if you want an apples to apples comparison, try a PM2000, at what seems to retail in the 2400 range along with the new unisaw, and you're in the same ballpark as the Sawstop. PM2000 for $2400 is a 3HP 220V saw. The Sawstop with that class motor is $3000 or so. In hybrid saws, I'm not sure there is a comparison to the SawStop. Seems like most hybrids are contractor saws in a cabinet so they are different designs from a true cabinet saw, SawStop just seems to have dropped a smaller 110V motor into the same unit as their 3HP model so they are just a lower power cabinet saw. Also, I've been thinking about it and I think the reason why the SawStop seems solid is because the trunion and under carriage has to be beefed up to handle repeated impacts of the stop mechanism. Other saws aren't beefed up that way because they just don't need to be. They aren't whacking full speed blades with a block of aluminum I think that's why the price is so high. I suspect the SawStop mechanism really isn't that expensive after doing some research but the underlying structure of the saw has to be so strong that the overall price of having a unit that can handle the impacts goes up. Just some thoughts... -Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I find it rather odd that on the first page of Normite City there are atleast three SawStop threads, seems like alot of advertiseing hype, and probably a few SawStop sales people in the mix. Those threads were started by people who were considering buying a Sawstop, and were asking for advice. In my opinion the SawStop users who replied were pretty fair and balanced in their comments. Most of them are long-time contributors in this forum, and I believe that if they had any affiliation with Sawstop they would own up to it. On the other hand, you've only posted twice to this forum, and both posts have been knocks against Sawstop. I also noticed that people refer to the SawStop as being an Industrial saw, but don't refer any other Cabinet saw as an Industrial saw. That's because Sawstop makes three models: The "Industrial Cabinet Saw", the "Professional Cabinet Saw", and the "Contractor Saw". You might just as well ask why people refer to the Powermatic as a PM2000, but don't refer to any other brand of table saw as a PM2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emccrory Posted February 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Aren't we grumpy today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I find it rather odd that on the first page of Normite City there are atleast three SawStop threads, seems like alot of advertiseing hype, and probably a few SawStop sales people in the mix. I also noticed that people refer to the SawStop as being an Industrial saw, but don't refer any other Cabinet saw as an Industrial saw. And why would anyone in their right mind cut aluminum on a table saw, or even admit to it ? Sadly it's got to the point that people put more into braging rights about what they have for equipment, then what they can actually make. I've been a woodworker for about 30 years and I've had some nice equipment over the years but ended up selling most of them because it wasn't practical to have, and there were other things that I needed more with that money. I don't care what anybody buys, but the constant sales pitches and braging about SawStop REALLY gets old. Plus in this economy we should be suporting American products and the jobs that go with them, not some import thats trying to be forced down everyones throat. It is not advertising, it is people with questions about the saw. I highly doubt that they are sales people. And if people want to brag about their saw, let them. I have a very nice shop, and I like showing it to people. It is something that I very proud of. That is what we do on forums. We buy things and we gloat about it, cause we are proud to show our new tool. And as for the economy, well, people will buy what they want to. SawStop is a quality product. They have a good rep and good customer support. To me it doesn't matter where it is made. And if you are tired of reading about them, then dont click the link.. Easy as that.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Beech, I don't know any of these people, includeing you, and it's going to take alot more then just your say so for me to gain anyones trust. I called it as I see it, and it looks suspicious. As far as the Industrial issue, I think that it would only be fair to mention that the other Cabinet Table Saws mentioned are Industrial machines also, you seemed to want to distort that issue for some reason, tipping the scale unfairly in SawStops favor to people that don't know any better. We are not looking for your trust here. This is an open forum. What people talk about here are generally based on their experiences. I highly doubt that Beech is tipping the scale in favor of the SawStop for any gain other than the safety of others and the interest that someone gets a good quality saw. How much research someone puts into getting a new saw is the only thing that is going to limit them from finding info on other saw manufacturers and their products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryangel69 Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 There also seems to be no set standard as to what a Hybrid saw is. I would suspect that the SawStop Professional Cabinet saw is really just a Hybrid. It is not a hybrid. I have crawled around underneath many saws. You will probably have to see one and do the same to make that determination for yourself. The trunion is heavier than on the new unisaw, but that is for a reason. It is a well built saw. I just think the lower end units are overpriced. Did I just defend the Sawstop. I must have a fever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimB1 Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Beech, I don't know any of these people, includeing you, and it's going to take alot more then just your say so for me to gain anyones trust. I called it as I see it, and it looks suspicious. As far as the Industrial issue, I think that it would only be fair to mention that the other Cabinet Table Saws mentioned are Industrial machines also, you seemed to want to distort that issue for some reason, tipping the scale unfairly in SawStops favor to people that don't know any better. Maybe you don't know any better either, in the last couple of years there has been some misinformation in classifications of saws from manufacturers that should know better. Makita lablels one of their Jobsite Table Saws as a Contractor's saw, and Steel City is labeling their Hybrids as Cabinet saws. There is alot of tom foolery in sales tactics lately that I've noticed. There also seems to be no set standard as to what a Hybrid saw is. I would suspect that the SawStop Professional Cabinet saw is really just a Hybrid. Well, most folks agree that cabinet saws have the trunion mounted to the cabinet not the top like a contractor saw does. The hybrids mount to the top like the contractor saws do. That seems to be the criteria for hybrids from everything I've read. Until the SawStop, all cabinet saws were also 220V. Using that as the standard for hybrid vs cabinet saw, I just checked and Steel City has a saw with 110V and trunion mounted to the cabinet. That'd make it the second 110V cabinet saw out there. (Yay, competition is good ) As far as gaining trust goes, I don't think anyone here knows you either but I for one always try to give the benefit of the doubt that everyone has something to provide to the conversation. You can choose to agree, disagree or ignore them but trusting them??? It's an opinion, you aren't giving them the keys to your house. If someone bases multi-thousand dollar purchases on things read in an open forum with no other research, I can't help you with that... When researching a new purchase, I check out lots of sources then try to check out the item myself if possible. Other folks opinions are useful but not the end all. Take them with a grain of salt. I'm neutral with regards to the SawStop and like a couple of others more anyway but I'm not in the market at the moment. In fact as of yesterday when I was at Woodcraft and checking out the SawStop (pretty much just because it was there and I don't get to see them that often), my wife said "The saw you have works fine, you don't need another one" and she was watching the SawStop video running at the time so there you go, not all wives agree that everyone needs a SawStop. I suspect that if the SawStop mechanism or some other breaking system was available on a PM2000 and a Delta Unisaw, the argument would go away quickly though... and we could all get back to the regular tablesaw one-upsmanship that happened before SawStop came around -Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Jim, on the matter of trust I guess it depends on if anyone here cares if this site is a place to gather credible information from. As far as the 110V Cabinet saw, it's not a traditional industrial duty Cabinet saw, the trunions may be cabinet mounted, but the trunions are certainly less in size and mass then a traditional Industrial table saw. The Steel City has been out in the market for a number of years, infact Orion who makes the saw for Steel City also made the popular Craftsman 22124 Hybrid saw. The Steel City 35670 once known as a hybrid, is now classified by Steel City as a Cabinet saw. There is a 225 lb difference between the SawStop Industrial 3 hp, and the SawStop Professional 1.75 hp. I think that the real difference is the fact that a hybrid is going to have TABLE mounted trunnions vs. a cabinet saw with CABINET mounted trunnions. Would you agree with this? I dont think that you can include motor size in this, because I could take the 3HP motor out of my General 650 and replace it with a 1.75HP and I am still going to have a cabinet saw. So based on this information, this Steel City saw here, that you claim is a hybrid saw, would actually be a cabinet saw because it has cabinet mounted trunnions and a full cabinet. It says so right in the description on the left hand side just about "Standard Equipment." So I would guess that the reason that they dont call it a "Hybrid" saw anymore, is because it is one. So is there something there that would lead you to believe that this is a hybrid saw? You said, and I quote " I would suspect that the SawStop Professional Cabinet saw is really just a Hybrid." Do you have any proof that it isnt? Or is this just a guess? The SawStop PCS175 I cant find the info on that, but it is listed as a cabinet saw. It shares the same cabinet as all the rest of the cabinet saws, which are real cabinet saws (unless you know something that I dont).. So is it a true cabinet saw, not sure. You can blame SS crappy website for the lack of info. And it is not listed as an industrial saw nor are they claiming that it is an industrial saw. It is listed as a Professional Cabinet Saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimB1 Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Jim, on the matter of trust I guess it depends on if anyone here cares if this site is a place to gather credible information from. As far as the 110V Cabinet saw, it's not a traditional industrial duty Cabinet saw, the trunions may be cabinet mounted, but the trunions are certainly less in size and mass then a traditional Industrial table saw. The Steel City has been out in the market for a number of years, infact Orion who makes the saw for Steel City also made the popular Craftsman 22124 Hybrid saw. The Steel City 35670 once known as a hybrid, is now classified by Steel City as a Cabinet saw. There is a 225 lb difference between the SawStop Industrial 3 hp, and the SawStop Professional 1.75 hp. Per SawStops Site: 110V PCS 408 lbs (with T-Glide Fence System & 36" rails) 220V PCS 426 lbs (with T-Glide Fence System & 36" rails) 220V Industrial Cabinet Saw 635 lbs (with optional fence, 36" rails & table) By way of comparison Per Jet's site: JPS-10: 10" ProShop 1-3/4HP 30" SW 110V Hybrid saw 285 lbs DELUXE XACTA® SAW 5HP, 1Ph, 30" RIP (highest available model) 490 lbs If your argument is that the 220V is a cabinet saw and the 110V is not because of the weight, we are talking about 18lbs difference in the PCS models which is easily the difference in the weight of the motors. The Industrial model is beefier as are the industrial models from every other major manufacturer that makes an industrial model. I don't think anyone said the PCS and the Industrial model were the same machine... Jet's top of the line model comes in at 145lbs lighter then the SawStop Industrial and is their highest model available. Does that mean the Jet Xacta is not an industrial level cabinet saw? I guess you could make an argument that Powermatic is the Industrial arm sinc Jet and PM are owned by the same parent then we are talking about a 7.5HP PM3000 which weighs in at around 750lbs with a 50" rip. Not sure who the arbiter of trust would be to decide if any site with a bunch of people's opinions can ever be considered trustworthy but if you choose not to trust what other people give their opinion on, you are free to do so. I won't even try to change your mind. I'd say unhook your Internet connection now because there are just way too many people with opinions out there that you don't know personally and can't vouch for If you choose not to trust someones opinion because you don't like it, feel free to post your own opinion, maybe someone will fine it trustworthy or maybe not. You obviously feel the SawStop is not worth it. I happen to agree with you and have stated my reasons, so far you've been pretty vague so how about a post stating exactly why you don't feel it's worth it rather then trying to get others who do to justify themselves? They spent the cash already so really they've already justified their reasons in their heads already so anything they say is going to sound like preaching to the choir when you get 4 or 5 people responding to a thread who have them already. That's why we need to have folks give reasons why they didn't go for whatever the person is asking about, in this case the SawStop. Just being argumentative about semantics and calling folks untrustworthy because you disagree doesn't make for a useful post. Tell us why it's not worth it so your opinion can be weighed along with all the other info. JMHO untrustworthy though it may be -Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimB1 Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 I can't believe that I have to explain this all over again. The problem with Hybrids saws is there is no set standard in the industry as to what they can call a Hybrid saw, some have cabinet mounted trunions, and some have table mounted trunions. In my opinion a Hybrid saw isn't a Hybrid unless it has cabinet mounted trunions. Now the issue with Steel City labeling their Hybrids as Cabinet saws. For instance, the same saw that Orion made for Craftsman and Steel City, The Craftsman saw was labeled as a Hybrid, and so was the Steel City saw up until recently they started labeling them as Cabinet saws. Steel City sells two categories of table saws, Cabinet saws, and Deluxe Cabinet saws. The Deluxe Cabinet saw line has the more traditional beefy Industrial Cabinet saw Trunions and runs on three v-belts, where as the Cabinet saw line has a lighter weight trunion and runs on one v-belt, both lines of saws have cabinet mounted trunions. You can see the differences on their website. Jim, as to your last post, obviously you don't get it, and I've said all that I'm going to say about it. Read it a couple more times if you have too. So you're saying that you don't think the PCS 110v is a cabinet saw due to the lack of heft in the trunions compared to a few (note: it is the same trunion as the PCS 220V) and use of only a single belt and shouldn't be advertised as such? OK fair enough. Lots of folks here have problems with SawStop's advertising for other reasons so that's as good a reason as any so far. Not sure how many cabinet saws out there have multiple belts though, maybe 4 or 5. Cuts out a lot of the field if that is one of the criteria for a cabinet saw...Thanks for clarifying. I've always heard the opposite, that a hybrid saw doesn't have cabinet mounted trunions and only cabinet saws do. You said it yourself, there's no set standard really so, they can call them whatever they want. Up until a few years ago the term hybrid saw didn't exist so really they could have said they were cabinet saws and no one would have blinked. I think the industry started calling them hybrids so they didn't dilute their own brand's 220V models or get a rep for having underpowered cabinets. Honestly though, It's a saw with an enclosed cabinet, it's not a stretch to say it's a cabinet saw regardless of the trunion mounting or any other component though since there's no one to say any different. Maybe they need a new term like light-duty cabinet saws??? Heck, some of the portables are using a belt drive now and aren't direct drive from the motor anymore so I can almost see saying they are a contractor saw if the criteria for a contractor saw is belt driven not direct drive. I wouldn't call them contractor saws but I think tons of contractors use them so I guess maybe they are contractor saws more now then what we term a contractor saw to be. ...oh well everyone has their own opinions on these things. I do see and understand yours though. One of the things I like about the Unisaw is the hefty one-piece trunion. I think it has a triple v-belt drive too... I can't believe I've been drawn into defending SawStop, what is this world coming to... :lol: Peace. -Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Well, this is the last thing that I am going to say. Lets agree to disagree. After doing some research, you are right, some hybrid saws do have cabinet mounted trunnions. But they can also have table mounted trunnions. You were correct in saying there is no set standard to what a hybrid is or isn't.. What I am seeing is that manufacturers like SawStop and Steel City are getting away from calling them a hybrids, cause they really are cabinet saws with smaller motors and maybe smaller trunnions. So is it motor size that make it a hybrid? The trunnions on these saw while I cant see them, I am going under the assumption that they are close to the same. When comparing the the weights, they are all close to the same. When comparing the Deluxe model and the non-deluxe SC saws, I think that there is more to it than just trunnion size. There is a noticeable difference in cabinet size as well. That also goes with the SS Industrial and Professional. As for the SS PCS saw having table mounted trunnions, that is incorrect. You can tell this by looking at the way you have to adjust the blade to miter slot. And to be honest, it is the best system that I have seen for adjusting this. Kind of makes me jealous. I spent way too long trying to get that setting good on my saw. The fact is that they are cabinet mounted. So it is what it is. This has been fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburpan Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 As Larry the cable guy would say, heres your sign. Bill Engvall is the "Here's your sign" guy. Larry the Cable Guy says, "Git 'er done." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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