Arm-R-Seal Gloss, Streaks; Best Fix?


kipnflip

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Hi everyone. Some background: I seem to be terrible at finishing. My projects generally turn out well, with unusual designs (motivated by having odd, mixed pieces of wood that I've collected here and there for years), solid construction and the like. My finishing skills, unfortunately, leave much to be desired.

I've tried numerous products, but generally prefer stain (danish oil is easy and looks good), followed by polyurethane for protection. Several coats of a thin, wipe-on poly have generally been the only way I'll get perhaps a "fair" finish. Not good, by a long shot, but fair. Anything else, and I'd classify the finish as poor, every single time.

I've watched video after video on finishing techniques. Tried fast application, slow application, regular bristle brush, lightweight foam brush, thicker foam brush, old T-shirts or socks (which absolutely always seem to give off little bits of material), store-bought application pads, and allegedly "lint-free" cloths (which always give off lint). Pre-soak with mineral spirits, or don't pre-soak. Thick application, thin application, circular motion, or long strokes with the grain. Invariably, no material or technique substantially changes my bad results: streaks, bubbles, whatever.

Here's my latest attempt. The table got Watco danish oil (first photo; looks fine) and a couple weeks to dry. Garage stats are about 75 Fahrenheit, maybe 40-45% humidity. That shouldn't be too bad. Then all *but* the top got several coats of that wipe-on poly -- the only thing that halfway works for me, although it's said that this stuff leaves a plastic-y look.

I next applied Arm-R-Seal (gloss) to the top, with a folded-up cloth. Naturally, streaks appeared. Two additional coats, and the streaks were still there. I know that poly doesn't "melt into" the previous coat, as some finishes do; but that doesn't (or didn't) necessarily mean to me that later coats couldn't conceal earlier streaks. Apparently, though, they can't.

In frustration, last night, I got out a 220 sanding sponge and sanded the whole thing vigorously until I must surely have gotten through much of the existing finish. Then, ignoring the can's "don't thin" admonition, I thinned to about 50% with mineral spirits, and applied it with a foam brush and long, with-grain strokes. The finish actually appeared to go on much better and more smoothly, and I think the last coat looks fine. Streaks, however -- almost certainly from earlier coats -- as well as scratches apparently from less-than-entirely-careful sanding, still stand out.

My question: what now? Will additional coats of poly ever conceal the streaks, or would they merely be a waste of time and finish? As hideous as it feels to do so, I'm frustrated enough with perpetual rough finishes that I have half a mind to take a random-orbit sander to the whole top, sand to bare wood (probably requiring another danish oil application and several days of curing), carefully sand around the edges to blend with the wipe-on poly on the rest of the piece, then completely redo the top using several coats of highly thinned Arm-R-Seal applied like I did with that last, apparently-better coat. If I do that, what grit might y'all recommend? I have a finish sander too. It's much slower, but does seem less likely to leave pig-tails or other weirdnesses.

Photos. (No sure what order they'll appear in.) (1) After danish oil only. (2) The streaks -- considerably improved from their earlier form after the heavy sanding and highly-thinned coat. (3) More streaks and a scratch, perhaps from sanding. (4) Perhaps another issue: I've seen these goofy long "swipes" after using a belt sander, and apparently didn't get this one out. Doing so seems to require an inordinate amount of additional random-orbit sanding at about 100 grit. Can anyone tell me what these are about?

Thanks, and sorry for the long winded post.

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My finishing skills are limited so I can't offer much in the way of why it happened,  but I would sand it off and use a satin finish. I find glossy finishes and spray paint hard to get right.

Check out the slab table video the wood whisperer did. It's a good one to watch for simple finishing.

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Your finishing process is similar to mine, although I rarely layer different finishes, like your poly over danish oil. 

I would suggest that after the DO cures, lightly sand with 220 or higher, then wipe away any reside with a clean rag, moistened with mineral spirits (beware of the "green", environmentally friendly substitue. It is terrible for finishing).

Allow the spirits to flash off before wiping on the ARS. I prefer to wipe on very this coats, lightly sanding with 320 or 400 between each. Allow 8 hours between coats. I've never experience streaking with this method, and my work space is typically 90+ F and 90%+ humidity in the summer.

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13 hours ago, gee-dub said:

It may be the pictures but, that looks like it could be clear finish over sanding scratches.  Are they the same streaks following the additional coats or new streaks?  If they are the same streaks you are simply applying a clear coat over a streaked layer and will have to sand back to that level and correct it.  It is possible that "that level" is the wood itself.

Surface prep is a major contributing factor to your finishing success.  Although I read that folks sand to 180 or 220 and then apply finish, it takes a pretty thick film to level over 50 micron scratches in your material.  Coloring the material with stain or dye can also help.  This is a great place to spray lacquer or poly over a color coat.

Thanks for your thoughts. My impression is that the original surface was fine; maybe not perfect, but not streaked like that. I always use mineral spirits on an original wood surface to bring out any imperfections (they almost always stand out like a sore thumb with mineral spirits, in my experience). I didn't see any, and the surface also seemed fine after I applied the danish oil.

It was only after application of the ARS that I noticed streaking; so, almost certainly some sort of problem with the ARS application. Then I put on a couple more coats, hoping that doing so would conceal the streaks; but, apparently, that scheme doesn't work with polyurethane. When I finally sanded a bunch with 220 - getting down to an earlier layer, but not all the way to bare wood - and then applied thinned ARS, the surface improved, but still had streaks. My best guess is that the main streaking was in the original ARS layer, and I'll just need to sand past that - to the original wood - and start over.

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2 hours ago, drzaius said:

I'm not an accomplished finisher, but have found that 220 can be a little too coarse for sanding between coats. And wiping varnish should be applied in very thin coats

Normally, I sand between coats using either 400 or 600 grit sandpaper, or maybe using 000 synthetic steel wool (which is much better than steel steel wool, in my opinion, as it doesn't give off little metal bits).

When I mentioned having sanded at 220, that was an exceptional case: I was deliberately thinking "an earlier layer must have had streaks, which I can't seem to cover up with additional layers, so I'm intentionally going to get waaaaay down into the previous layers and then try applying a new one." So, I didn't mean that it's normal for me to sand at 220 between layers. :-)

 

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8 hours ago, kipnflip said:

Thanks for your thoughts. My impression is that the original surface was fine; maybe not perfect, but not streaked like that. I always use mineral spirits on an original wood surface to bring out any imperfections (they almost always stand out like a sore thumb with mineral spirits, in my experience). I didn't see any, and the surface also seemed fine after I applied the danish oil.

It was only after application of the ARS that I noticed streaking; so, almost certainly some sort of problem with the ARS application. Then I put on a couple more coats, hoping that doing so would conceal the streaks; but, apparently, that scheme doesn't work with polyurethane. When I finally sanded a bunch with 220 - getting down to an earlier layer, but not all the way to bare wood - and then applied thinned ARS, the surface improved, but still had streaks. My best guess is that the main streaking was in the original ARS layer, and I'll just need to sand past that - to the original wood - and start over.

My heart rose and then fell reading this.  I was glad to hear that the surface prep was not the problem.  It is unfortunate that the streaks probably lie so deep in the finish.  ARS is self leveling but, I too have trouble with application at times.  Like shellac the biggest mistake is to go back over an area that you have already laid down.  Your weather is very different from my dry desert basin so it may be that you can re-brush with less impact.  Around here the finish starts to film very quickly.  A foam brush with slightly overlapping edges serves me best.

 

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