What can be under Enduro Var?

[Dave S]

A while back I picked up some Enduro Var from General Finishes. I used it on a number of projects and liked it. However, it does not add the rich amber color that an oil-based finish does. The directions say it should only be used over water stains, dye stains and raw wood. I tried it once on an experimental project for myself over an oil based stain, giving the stain seven days to cure. I’m about three quarters of the year in and everything seems to be holding up.

The project I’m working on now is with walnut and I don’t want to use a stain, but don’t want to go straight Enduro Var because when I’ve used it on walnut in the past it fails to produce that deep warm brown you get with oil.

So with that brief history, I wonder if I might get away with using linseed oil first, let it cure for an extended period, and then try the Enduro Var. Does anybody have experience over time with this strategy or something similar? The project is big, and I don’t want to screw it up. Thanks guys,

Dave

[pkinneb]

As always try a test piece, that's the only way to really know. 

Having said that I would be a bit concerned if I could really get that linseed oil to to cure regardless of time frame. Others on here will have way more experience then I do on this subject so hopefully they will chime in.

[Chestnut]

I'd use ARS. It'll give you 99.9% the same warming effect linseed oil will but won't have the extended cure. I've done wiping poly under WB a few times  make sure to scuff the surface with 320 grit before applying the waterborne. Other options are dewaxed shellac.

For a big project shellac may not be the best option unless you are applying via hvlp. Though endurovar doesn't sound easy for a large project without hvlp either.

[Dave S]

Chestnut, sorry to be so naïve but what's ARS?

[Chestnut]

Arm R Seal or any sort of wiping  polyurethane. It's another general finishes product.

[Dave S]

Thanks guys for the linseed oil caution and recommendations.

Dave

[RichardA]

Another option would be Danish oil first. That will bring out any figure, as well as warm up the color. Then add your finish.

[Dave S]

Richard, I'm assuming that pkinneb's caution about linseed oil not curing is not a concern with Danish oil? It does fully cure? Thanks for weighing in.

[Chestnut]

Danish oil is just a consumer name for polymerized or or boiled linseed oil or tung oil or ..... well It comes in many wide variations and formulations. Watco danish oil is essentially a wiping polyurethane though.

General Finishes has ARS

Minwax has wipe on poly

Watco has "danish oil" I could be wrong but as i understood the watco branded stuff is less an oil and more a polyurethane.

[wtnhighlander]

I can confirm that Watco brand Danish oil does cure, only a bit less rapidly than Minwax Wipe-On poly or ARS. It is less viscous than the wiping polys, and takes a LOT of coats to build any sort of film. Should add a nice amber tone to the wood, but I would allow at least twice the mfg. recommended cure time before applying the EnduroVar.

[Chet]

6 hours ago, Dave S said:

Richard, I'm assuming that pkinneb's caution about linseed oil not curing is not a concern with Danish oil? It does fully cure? Thanks for weighing in.

I have used EnduroVar over Danish oil.  I started to spray the EnduroVar seven days after applying the Danish Oil and it was orange peeling on my so I waited another 3 days and tried again and things were fine.  Fortunately  when I found out it was too soon I was spraying the bottom of the project so no real harm.  So be cautious.  I live in Northern California The humidity wasn't bad about 30% and it was the cooler time of the year.  Your weather at the time will affect your drying time of Danish oil.

[Dave S]

Thanks to all for the education. Sounds like you can get a feel for whether or not the final finish will adhere pretty soon. I didn't describe this well in my original post, but I was thinking you might have to wait for a long period of time to determine adherence. Because that isn't so (please correct me if I've misinterpreted here), I'm going to try with a test piece Danish oil (three week cure), and Enduro-var over that. I'll post some pictures as I go. Again, thanks so much everyone. Dave

[RichardA]

I generally find it safe to apply finish to Danish oil in around 7 days to 10 days, depending on the humidity in my shop. It's most often  a controlled area, with the necessary heat and air.

[Dave S]

I promised to post a picture of a comparison between some of the options you all suggested. Unfortunately, the picture only hints at what you can see with your eye. What’s mostly missing is a 3 dimensional issue and contrast. My phone just couldn’t seem to capture these.

Arm-R-Seal and Endurovar alone (both semigloss) were applied in three coats with 400 grit sanding between. Danish oil was applied as the can suggested, saturating the wood then waiting 15 minutes and applying again with the final wipe off. I allowed a few days for the Danish oil to cure rather than longer figuring I only needed to get a look. However, so far no problems with adherence.

Anyhow, here are my conclusions based on what I can see with the real piece in front of me:

1. Endurovar is pale particularly if the wood is viewed at certain angles and produces the least contrast. This didn’t seem to happen with with Arm-R-seal (e.g. compare left and center panel grains in the middle of the wood).

2. Danish oil topped with Endurovar eliminated the paler look, producing a deep rich tone, but likewise minimized the contrast.

3. Arm-R-Seal in my opinion captured the best of the wood producing a three dimensional depth you can’t see in the picture. Neither of the Endurovar panels captured this.

Conclusion: I didn’t realize how much my eye yearns for contrast because the Danish oil certainly restored the color of the wood, but was unsatisfactory to me. Although I would like to move away from the long cure time and heavier smell of the oil-based finish, I just love that look.

Looking forward to trying some of the hard wax oils you all have been discussing.

[Chet]

4 hours ago, Dave S said:

I allowed a few days for the Danish oil to cure rather than longer figuring I only needed to get a look. However, so far no problems with adherence.

Just to share, it would be a problem with adherence but more a problem with ending up with an orange peel texture to the top coat.