Concealed Hinge Selection Assist

[gee-dub]

Those familiar with Blum, face frame, ½” overlay, self-closing, concealed hinges . . . in short I am looking for a face frame mount, 3mm tab hinge that has more adjustment range than the 38N?

The long version . . .

I am fitting new flat and square 44-1/2” x 18” x ¾” doors to an ‘old work’ face frame. Although I thought the frame was “close enough” to true to be used I am finding the adjustable range of the Blum 38N hinges to be inadequate to overcome the deviations. The tilt (adjustment screw) and height (oblong hole) adjustments are fine for aligning the gap between doors and evening their height.

The adjustment I can’t quite overcome is the front to back positioning of the door. The frame deviation makes one corner or the other of a given door stick out in relation to it’s neighbor door. One option would be to demo the existing frame and put in a fame that is more true. I would like to avoid that.

I know there are face frame concealed hinges that have a greater range of adjustment. I also know that to people who work with this hardware regularly they all seem clearly unique and specific to their intended use. If you need an IPv6 addressing plan for a /48, I’m your man. When it comes to this hardware apparently I am a bit thick.

Anyone care to suggest a hinge or hinge series that will use a face frame mount, a 3mm tab (distance from the door edge to cup hole edge), self-closing, and has more adjustment range than the 38N?

TIA

[curlyoak]

The customer service at Blum is exceptional. Majority of there job is to answer questions just like you are asking. They might have an answer.

[gee-dub]

@curlyoak - Thanks.  Ironically, this is what I tell others so often . . . I should follow my own advice

[Ron Swanson Jr.]

On 12/3/2023 at 2:28 PM, curlyoak said:

The customer service at Blum is exceptional. Majority of there job is to answer questions just like you are asking. They might have an answer.

This. ^^^

Also if you live anywhere near a Rockler location. It's been several years since i worked there, so i can't say a specific hinge - but they a wide selection of Blum and Salice hinges, with the common variables covered. If you're not near a physical store, I'm sure their CS can help you by phone. 

[gee-dub]

On 12/3/2023 at 1:15 PM, Ron Swanson Jr. said:

This. ^^^

Also if you live anywhere near a Rockler location. It's been several years since i worked there, but they a wide selection of Blum and Salice hinges, with the common variables covered. If you're not near a physical store, I'm sure their CS can help you by phone. 

Thanks Nick (wink, wink) I am near a Rockler but . . . $3 - $4 per hinge versus $15 per hinge makes me patient enough to order.  I am a Rockler fan but their pricing jump a few years ago has made me less of a customer.  The same thing happened when Woodcraft lost their minds a decade ago. Their catalogs pretty much go straight from the mailbox to the recycle bin anymore.

[Ron Swanson Jr.]

On 12/3/2023 at 3:18 PM, gee-dub said:

Thanks Nick (wink, wink) I am near a Rockler but . . . $3 - $4 per hinge versus $15 per hinge makes me patient enough to order.  I am a Rockler fan but their pricing jump a few years ago has made me less of a customer.  The same thing happened when Woodcraft lost their minds a decade ago. Their catalogs pretty much go straight from the mailbox to the recycle bin anymore.

Couldn't agree more. I worked at Rockler for a few years on weekends. They do some things really well-like their dust collection products. 

But then there's the rest of it. Poor quality stuff at sky high prices. 

[curlyoak]

Every new project that needs blum hinges I call customer service and let them specify. As my memory in my old age is not what it used to be. If I did try to answer the question, it might be wrong. Cant afford that. Even with perfect memory I would still call.

[gee-dub]

Turns out they make these:

I will try a shop made version.  It sounds like I should have used a clip top version with a face frame plate.  I can always go to that if the spacer doesn't work out.

A clever fellow on another forum uses a method where he cuts a relief at the rear of the frame.  Apparently this happens on larger doors often enough that he has a biscuit jointer set up to make this sort of hidden mortise.  This allows the rear tabs on the hinge to register to the new surface and project farther forward while using the compact hardware throughout the build.

[BillyJack]

I use the 38N on my builder grade cabinets. I don’t like them on personal stuff because it leaves the door too proud  on the face frame… 

 

You can see the gap on the end upper door..

 

 

[BillyJack]

On 12/4/2023 at 9:37 AM, gee-dub said:

Turns out they make these:

I will try a shop made version.  It sounds like I should have used a clip top version with a face frame plate.  I can always go to that if the spacer doesn't work out.

A clever fellow on another forum uses a method where he cuts a relief at the rear of the frame.  Apparently this happens on larger doors often enough that he has a biscuit jointer set up to make this sort of hidden mortise.  This allows the rear tabs on the hinge to register to the new surface and project farther forward while using the compact hardware throughout the build.

Im not really sure what your trying to do here.

 

you need more adjustment which way? Up/down, side to side, forward/backwards?

[gee-dub]

I agree about the gap.  These doors are situated at the end of a hallway and there is not sidelong viewing angle. Forward backward adjustment was my issue.  I have hit the limit of the built-in adjustment and need about 1/16" more.  What is torturing me is a poor quality "old work" frame that I probably should have just torn out and replaced.  I just don't do this sort of work very often and am quite the armature.

Some brilliant guy on another forum suggested a relief on the back of the frame to allow the hinge to be mounted farther forward. I'll share his tip here in case it helps someone in the future. This is brief and assumes you have seen a Blum 38 series compact concealed hinge.

Here's the clip part of the hinge that straddles the face frame. It has an oblong hole that allows movement up and down but, not forward and back. There is a built in forward and back adjustment but when that is not enough . . .

Clip in position (you normally cannot see much of this as the hinge is one assembly). This is the view from the front with the balance of the hinge visually removed.

Here's the view from behind the frame. The tabs restrict the mounting position (as they should).

Use a Forstner to drill a relief of a depth that matches the additional adjustment you require.

Hook the back tabs on the new "edge". The front tab will be out in space but concealed by the hinge.

Problem solved.

[legenddc]

Seems like you found your solution. In case anyone else has questions about Blum hinges I received excellent customer service from TDD Hardware two years ago when a lot of their products were sold out.

I called to see if they had any of what I needed and was told no. The the sales rep called me back 10 minutes later and said he talked to some others there and they did have offset hinges with a larger mounting plate that would accomplish the same thing.

[BillyJack]

Blum, Salice , Grass, etc usually give good customer service. 
 

The 38N is a standard hinge. Personally I started hating the hinge and went to a two piece..

[gee-dub]

On 12/5/2023 at 11:36 AM, BillyJack said:

Blum, Salice , Grass, etc usually give good customer service. 
 

The 38N is a standard hinge. Personally I started hating the hinge and went to a two piece..

Thanks Billy. I have pretty much come to the same conclusion myself. Next time…

[Tom King]

I have always used Salice two piece hinges.  The different mounts come in good a lot of times.  I used to be able to get them next day from Woodworkers Supply, but not sure where that will end up with them either closing down or changing hands.  Salice invented the hidden hinge.  I like the Blum slides, but Salice hinges.

[BillyJack]

Salice is a nice looking hinge. Paxton lumber company use to sell them and I preferred them, but they got expensive and went to Grass..

 

Now I just pull the book on a grass and only search there products unless I get a flier saying there is a big discount at one of my suppliers on another brand..