drtom Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 Greetings Woodfolas, I've got a drum shell that appears to have been exposed to water, which has caused the plies to separate. I plan to repair this with glue and clamps. The problem is getting the glue where it's needed, since the separation at it's narrowest is less than half a credit card's thickness. The solution seems to be syringes. However, I am totally unfamiliar with syringes, so I'm her seeking your advice. What is the smallest practical size available and what type of glue would be best suited for this? I keep a good variety of glues handy and know that hide glue, for example, becomes much less viscous when warmed. How are syringes measured, for that matter? Where can I get them? Please share anything you think a novice should know, but wouldn't think to ask. Thanks for your help. Quote
legenddc Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 Look at Starbond CA glue. They sell it with a super small precision tip that might work for you. 1 Quote
wtnhighlander Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 I would consider just flooding thin CA glue into the crack and clamping. PVA or hide glue will be extremely difficult to force through a needle smaller that the type used to inject marinades into cooked meat. There are some thin epoxies that might work. If the delamination is open from side to side, you can probably lay a bead of whatever glue on one side, and pull a vacuum from the other side witb a shop vac. I've even seen dental threaded through and used to drag glue into such tight spaces. 2 Quote
fcschoenthal Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 On 1/31/2025 at 8:33 PM, legenddc said: Look at Starbond CA glue. They sell it with a super small precision tip that might work for you. That was my first thought as well. A thin CA glue that they have will wick into it really well. 2 Quote
drtom Posted February 1 Author Report Posted February 1 On 1/31/2025 at 6:33 PM, legenddc said: Look at Starbond CA glue. They sell it with a super small precision tip that might work for you. Thanks Chris, The thing is that the separation extends well beyond the bearing edge, so I'm going to need plenty of working time to get the glue everywhere it's needed, and then apply the clamps. Quote
drtom Posted February 1 Author Report Posted February 1 On 1/31/2025 at 6:35 PM, wtnhighlander said: I would consider just flooding thin CA glue into the crack and clamping. PVA or hide glue will be extremely difficult to force through a needle smaller that the type used to inject marinades into cooked meat. I should probably have spelled out that I was asking about glue syringes. I think I would be able to force the glue well into the shell beyond the opening at the bearing edge with one of these. Quote
drtom Posted February 1 Author Report Posted February 1 On 1/31/2025 at 7:08 PM, fcschoenthal said: That was my first thought as well. A thin CA glue that they have will wick into it really well. I actually use something like that with a similar applicator as that offered by Starbond. Goes by the name of Tite Chairs with a very low viscosity and it works absolute wonders on hairline cracks that don't need clamping. I'm dealing with a couple of sizable areas that will need clamping. 1 Quote
Popular Post Mark J Posted February 1 Popular Post Report Posted February 1 Woodcraft sells a syringe kit with a couple of syringes and a selection of blunt tips. That's the way to go. But since you asked: Syringes are sized by milliliters. Common sizes are 1, 5, 10, 20, 30 & 60 ml. The syringe tip will either be a luer lock, or catheter tip. The catheter tip is simply push on pull off, while with the luer fitting the needle is first pushed on then twisted which locks the needle on to the syringe. So luer is preferred. Needles are sized by guage, so smaller numbers are larger diameter. Common sizes are 16, 18, 20, 22, 25 guage. Your gap looks pretty big in the photo. If you can get an 18g into the gap this should be big enough to inject a low to medium viscosity glue. A 20g may work, too. Pushing glue through a 22g is asking a lot, but you can do the experiment. Syringes and needles are not sold in stores. You can try a home medical supply store, or less likely a pharmacy. 3 Quote
Mark J Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 I believe there are some CA glues that have longer open times. In addition to Starbond, you might see what GluBoost has to offer. Or consult with Rockler or Woodcraft. Quote
Popular Post B1rdhunter Posted February 1 Popular Post Report Posted February 1 I inject titebond 3 all the time with a medical syringe and 18 guage needle, 3 Quote
Mark J Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 1 hour ago, B1rdhunter said: I inject titebond 3 all the time with a medical syringe and 18 guage needle, Where do you source your medical syringes and needles? Quote
drtom Posted February 1 Author Report Posted February 1 Now we're talking! Really useful stuff guys. Thanks for the feedback and please keep it coming. Quote
B1rdhunter Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 On 2/1/2025 at 11:11 AM, Mark J said: Where do you source your medical syringes and needles? Wife is a nurse. 1 Quote
Popular Post B1rdhunter Posted February 1 Popular Post Report Posted February 1 I also buy them at my local veterinarian when we get shots for our dogs and pups. 3 Quote
Popular Post Mark J Posted February 2 Popular Post Report Posted February 2 @drtom Do an internet search for "dispensing needles" and you'll find some longer and larger needles with blunt tips. My quick look found some 14 gauge needles and that 14 gauge needles have an OD of about 2mm which looks like it would work in this application. There are a lot of cracks and crevices that 14 would be to wide to use, so some larger gauge needles would be useful to have as well. Again, I think trying to squeeze glue through even a short 22 gauge will be a challenge, and I wouldn't bother with anything narrower. Also, note that it is more easier to dispense a viscous material using a smaller diameter syringe. Lastly, figure the syringe and needle well be good for one application session. https://www.amazon.com/Dispensing-Industrial-Syringe-Needles-Applicator/dp/B08ZKLBG82/ref=sr_1_3?crid=U9BYWGL2Z73U&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.wk6MWRKQmgpXw7oqvhVflEDY_120EQT81kRmPATnrOB_tqY1NX2kK8o2JcsqaAwWk5dqN16Fpdd_ufbeu1MkwJ3Qpw1T8twaFBKDC4Mhepp_MXH9LIq8ZdJeZRCPuM9cf1WxGAKYNPjyMF3AQ64qnYLnD8KnvsxV6Bnk8RrfIhQkwwDgXh8iZL7lQ0Y_T0ScllNFom9p58aecPAP62XjxnF16gW4uTfAmChAkP8InF0.qTxQjegOyJLETHgBjZST1VqRLauOzynTizOW4pLqHAE&dib_tag=se&keywords=spinal%2Bneedle&qid=1738520193&sprefix=spinal%2Bneedle%2Caps%2C126&sr=8-3&th=1 https://www.amazon.com/Dispense-All-Dispensing-Needle-Blunt/dp/B0791SDDZ7/ref=sr_1_4?crid=U9BYWGL2Z73U&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.wk6MWRKQmgpXw7oqvhVflEDY_120EQT81kRmPATnrOB_tqY1NX2kK8o2JcsqaAwWk5dqN16Fpdd_ufbeu1MkwJ3Qpw1T8twaFBKDC4Mhepp_MXH9LIq8ZdJeZRCPuM9cf1WxGAKYNPjyMF3AQ64qnYLnD8KnvsxV6Bnk8RrfIhQkwwDgXh8iZL7lQ0Y_T0ScllNFom9p58aecPAP62XjxnF16gW4uTfAmChAkP8InF0.qTxQjegOyJLETHgBjZST1VqRLauOzynTizOW4pLqHAE&dib_tag=se&keywords=spinal%2Bneedle&qid=1738520193&sprefix=spinal%2Bneedle%2Caps%2C126&sr=8-4&th=1 3 Quote
B1rdhunter Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 18 guage works very good for titebond. As long as you leave some glue in the cap that covers the needle you can keep using for several weeks. 1 Quote
Dave H Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 Amazon is your friend https://www.amazon.com/s?k=glue+syringes&crid=25AAZRYKWWVOG&sprefix=glue+sur%2Caps%2C205&ref=nb_sb_ss_mvt-t11-ranker_1_8 Quote
Popular Post drtom Posted February 3 Author Popular Post Report Posted February 3 Some really great insight and suggestions from several of you. Based on that and a bit of further research, I went to the Tractor Supply just around the corner (how lucky can I get?). They sell syringes in a variety of sizes for the animal husbandry folks. There I picked up syringes in various sizes and packs of needles in gauges of 18G, 20G and 22G. My intention was to experiment and learn from that. I'll follow up with a detailed post in a couple of days. 5 Quote
Popular Post drtom Posted 15 hours ago Author Popular Post Report Posted 15 hours ago OK, sorry it took a while to get back to this. Caught a nasty bug in the meantime. Anyway, I think the following will be useful to some folks in the future. The 18G needles seemed large enough to accommodate something like Titebond without even having to thin it in any way. Full discolsure: I judged this by sight without actually trying it, since 18G was too big for some of the tighter splits I was dealing with. The 22G needles would accommodate only a VERY low viscosity glue, and glues with such low viscosity tend to have very brief working times. I needed working time so did not even try these. The 20G needles turned out to be perfect for my needs. A bit large for the narrowest splits, but because these are actual syringes with a sharp point I could use that point to work my way in. I used hide glue and warmed it to make it as runny as possible. Even then the glue squeezed through the needle only slowly. It took patience, but I did have plenty of working time. Cold hide glue would never work with this size. A bonus of working with hide glue is that it cleans up easily with hot tap water. I was able the reuse the syringe and needle several times. I still have the originals, cleaned up and ready to go again. The bad news is that once the drum was fixed the owner rushed to retrieve it. Between fighting off the bug and work, I didn't get a chance to take the usual AFTER pictures. Sorry about that. 6 Quote
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