Making a hand rail - how can I make this profile?

[AMarshall]

Alrighty guys, I need some ideas on how to make a large radius curve on the top of a hand rail. Take a look a this picture of the cross-section please:

The hand rail will be about 15 feet long, on a flight of stairs. So there's no way I can get it consistent with a block plane for instance. I'm just not that good.

I'm also not thrilled about buying a huge whopping roundover bit for just this job, and a smaller 3/4" or 1/2" roundover won't make the top curve like I want it. FYI, the curve drawn has a 1 1/4" radius.

Thanks in advance for any ideas you guys might have!

[PaulMarcel]

While it isn't a true arc, you could create a very similar radius with a table edge bit. I have one and use it rather often to make a nice rounded top like that, but it will be a bit flatter at the top.

Not suggesting this particular bit, but it illustrates the point:

Thumbnail table edge bit

without using the reveal portion of the bit, you could use the sweep. Each arm of the sweep is about 1" and you need 5/8" so most would be in the, uhm, arm pit of the sweep.

This is just an example. My thumbnail table edge bit is different than this one (can't find it actually...) but there are several subtle profiles like this that will likely have a workable radius in the pit. Great, new technical word... pit.

[rmac]

This idea would require some careful setup, but it might be a place to start thinking.

1. Make a series of stepped cuts along the top of the rail, using either a table saw or a straight bit in a router. Oh, wait. This thing is fifteen feet long. Forget the saw. Use the router. Anyway, position the cuts so that the corner of each one just touches the desired profile, like this:

2. Paint the surfaces exposed by the cuts that you just made. What the heck, paint them red!

3. Grab your planes/rasps/files/sandpaper/whatever, and start removing the ridges. This will leave a series of red lines when you are partway done.

4. Continue with your planes/rasps/files/sandpaper/whatever until the red lines just barely disappear. This should leave you with something very close to the desired profile.

5. Clean things up using lenghtwise passes with a piece of relatively stiff sandpaper (maybe a belt sander belt?) wrapped around the profile.

Red paint? Seriously? Well, I first put that in there in order to help describe the process. But it might be something that's actually worth doing. It really would make it easy to see what was happening as you approached the profile. Worth thinking about, anyway.

-- Russ

[Beechwood Chip]

I like Russ's idea. If you prefer jigs and guides to hand/eye, you could make a jig that slides along the rail with a curved slot for a router with a template guide. So, the rail would sit on a flat table and the jigs legs would fit on either side of the rail, and your router sits on top of the jig. You'd move the jig down the rail. Let me know if that isn't clear and I'[ll try to SketchUp something.

To clean it up, You could use one of Marc's flexible sanding strips to match the arc and keep a straight line down the rail. If you really like to make jigs, you could build something with the right curve to back up the sandpaper. I'm picturing something that looks like a jointer plane with a curved sole, with sandpaper glued to the sole.

[AMarshall]

Thanks for the ideas, guys! I knew this was the place to ask for help.

Paul, I had no idea that there were such bits around. I guess I need to spend some time looking before I open my mouth, huh? I'll take a look and see if there is a bit that could work for me. With my luck I'll find it and it will be one of those bits that is over $100. I am cheap so I always hesitate to buy a bit that may be a one-time use.

Russ, I was originally thinking to rough it out on the table saw but as you point out manhandling a 15 foot long blank over my saw will be no fun. Especially since my garage shop is just 19' long! I could roll up the garage door and look for a helper but I think a router would be best as you say. The red paint is a very good idea whether you were kidding or not. I'm concerned that the rail would end up with subtle waves from the handwork. Since anybody that comes down the stairs will be looking along the whole length of the rail it may really show too.

Chip, I can picture the jig you mentioned. Almost like the jigs people build to flatten a bench top with a router, but have a curved top profile that the router follows. This could work! Just creep along 1 foot at a time...

Hmmm...now the gears are spinning again. Thanks!

[AMarshall]

Oh yeah I forgot something. The reason I'm going for this profile at all is that we live in a Craftsman Bungalow and I'm trying to be respectful to its origins. We recently finished the basement and this is one of the last bits.

I found a similar profile in Bob Lang's book Shop Drawings for Craftsman Interiors from a 1911 Stickley design. I suppose in the old days they would have just manned up and done it freehand with planes. Probably would have had it done in the time that I've spent just thinking about it!

[PurpLev]

how about building some sort of router sled/jig that would ride along the rail and shape it down (after you take most material off with a TS or straight guided router :

Mind you - the model is not up to spec, nor does it try to show a final jig construction - just gives out the concept I am talking about.

[rmac]

Actually, I think the jig that PurpLev hints at could be built so that all the work could be done in one step with the router, and without any preliminary removal of material.

-- Russ

[Beechwood Chip]

I suppose in the old days they would have just manned up and done it freehand with planes.

In the old days (and today) contractors and architects take stuff to mills where they create any type of profile you want. They have a huge number of cutting heads in stock, and can make a custom cutter for any profile they don't aready have.

My general contractor reproduced some 1880s molding for my house when he was putting in a new window.

If you are reproducing something already in your home, odds are that it was in other homes built at the same time, and someone has already made a cutter head for it.

[AMarshall]

how about building some sort of router sled/jig that would ride along the rail and shape it down (after you take most material off with a TS or straight guided router :

Mind you - the model is not up to spec, nor does it try to show a final jig construction - just gives out the concept I am talking about.

Yeah, that's what was in my head too! I think I am liking this the best. Kind of fiddly, but it should give pretty consistent results once it's built.

[AMarshall]

If you are reproducing something already in your home, odds are that it was in other homes built at the same time, and someone has already made a cutter head for it.

Chip, the biggest problem with finding someone else to do it is that my wife will say "Why do you need all those tools if you are going to have someone else do your work for you?" Can't have that, lol!

[dryhter]

Aaron

I don't think you give yourself enough credit. And like the old Nike commercial my advice is to "just do it!". Here's why, you hesitate to use a plane to make the profile on the handrail because you don't trust your skills at woodworking, but I would be willing to bet dollars to donuts that you are more accomplished than you believe. The Task at hand is not that hard, believe me, just start rounding over until you get a pleasing profile. Remember you are a journey man wood worker you need to develop your skills and this is the perfect project. If I read the post correctly this is for a stand alone handrail, on a back stairs, you are not matching a profile of an existing main stair in a foyer. It is in a craftsman style bungalow house, the craftsman style was a rebellion against the previous era of gaudy, intricate perfection. The quirky details and slight imperfections (whether deliberate or unintentional) are all part of the warmth and charm of these Craftsman style homes.

Here is how I would do it

• If you have a table saw or even a circular saw remove most of the waste by clipping the corners at 45*
• use a plane, preferably a low angle, but a jack will work and roughly define the profile, small two foot sections at first you could even use a rasp
• next step is to blend in the two foot sections, use the same plane or one with a longer sole and work four or six foot sections. If it was me I would use a belt sander with some 80 grit paper and a light touch, you could also make a sanding block about a foot long with some 60 or 80 grit paper on it to blend in the lumps and bumps, remember at this point you are still shaping not finishing.
• This starts the finishing step, using the same block refine the profile to a pleasing feel and work on getting rid of any tool marks and heavy scratches. I would use a random orbit sander followed by a palm sander with progressively finer grits down to about 120

It is not that hard, just do it, you will be fine.

[AMarshall]

Sorry for the lack of updates guys, but I was forced to go on vacation by my wife. It was tough, but I got through it!

Anyway, the rail is finished but on the wall yet. This turned out to be quite a struggle for me. Not with the wood, but with my thinking and approach. I may have mentioned my tendency to overplan, and that's just what happened on this one. I decided to go with the router jig approach, since I couldn't comfortably feed the 16 foot rail through any of my machines without moving the shop walls. I'll spare you all the nitty gritty, but the router jig went through about 5 different generations before I finally realized that it just wasn't going to give the results I wanted.

I had this unrealistic mental image of a perfectly smooth handrail coming fresh out of the router jig. Due to a bunch of factors, the best I could come up with looked something like the picture Russ (RMac) shared in his post above, with most of the waste hogged away by the router. It was good enough that a sander was able to get me the rest of the way, and the end result is just what I wanted.

In the end, dryhter was right - although not about me being an accomplished journeyman! It wasn't that hard to shape it by hand, and it turned out fine.

[Guest Trace]

When I was in high school (a hundred years ago) one of the smart a.. remarks was," Whats the matter with you, you stupid or something? Do I need to draw you a picture?". My answer was usually yes. I always draw pictures so that I can get the look of the object fixed in my alledged mind.Get out the old calculator. Make a drawing of half of the top radius. Figure the angles for making cuts on the table saw at 3 or 5 degree increments. You will also have to figure the incremental adjustment for the distance to move the fence. You will make a cut on each side of the rail at each setting. This sounds complicated, but it is just high school Trigonometry. Make all of the cuts, then have at the rail with a good palm sander. finish with a lot of elbow grease using 220 grit. The bead at the bottom is probably easily made with a standard router bead bit. The groove is a candidate for multiple passes on the saw also. Practice with a smaller piece to get the process down pat. Good luck on your project.

[Guest Trace]

Well, old dumb me didn't read the post explaining that the rail has been made. Although the question asked originally, did give me an answer to another project needing some attention here at the ongoing work in progress called our house.

[AMarshall]

Well, old dumb me didn't read the post explaining that the rail has been made. Although the question asked originally, did give me an answer to another project needing some attention here at the ongoing work in progress called our house.

Trace, no worries! Thanks for chipping in anyway, even if I have already made my rail maybe someone else will benefit from your reply. The information here can be applied to a lot of different projects, not just my one specific example.

[BuilderBill]

When I was in high school (a hundred years ago) one of the smart a.. remarks was," Whats the matter with you, you stupid or something? Do I need to draw you a picture?". My answer was usually yes. I always draw pictures so that I can get the look of the object fixed in my alledged mind.Get out the old calculator. Make a drawing of half of the top radius. Figure the angles for making cuts on the table saw at 3 or 5 degree increments. ......

Trace,

Totally superfluous reply having nothing at all to do with the topic, but after reading your reply I just have to ask:

So where's the picture? :) Inquiring minds want to know....

Sorry, I just couldn't pass that up, no offense meant but you gotta admit you left yourself wide open....

Best,

Bill

[Onboard]

Aaron, I know you have already completed the task, however I was wondering if, at the time, you had looked in using a half radius bull nose router bit (aka oval edge)? They do make them in 1 1/2 inch "bead openings" which is the dimension shown in your picture. This yields a larger radius than a full bull nose router bit so the profile would have a "flatter" radius as yours does. Just a thought.

Alrighty guys, I need some ideas on how to make a large radius curve on the top of a hand rail. Take a look a this picture of the cross-section please:

The hand rail will be about 15 feet long, on a flight of stairs. So there's no way I can get it consistent with a block plane for instance. I'm just not that good.

I'm also not thrilled about buying a huge whopping roundover bit for just this job, and a smaller 3/4" or 1/2" roundover won't make the top curve like I want it. FYI, the curve drawn has a 1 1/4" radius.

Thanks in advance for any ideas you guys might have!

[AMarshall]

Aaron, I know you have already completed the task, however I was wondering if, at the time, you had looked in using a half radius bull nose router bit (aka oval edge)? They do make them in 1 1/2 inch "bead openings" which is the dimension shown in your picture. This yields a larger radius than a full bull nose router bit so the profile would have a "flatter" radius as yours does. Just a thought.

Wow, I had no idea those existed! I had to google it, and then found the bit over at Eagle America. I think if I had known about that I would certainly have gone that way, Onboard. Dang it! I typically don't like to buy router bits for one time use, so I may have cheaped out. But knowing what a PITA it turned out to be to come up with a decent jig solution, I would call the $50 money well spent on this one.

Incidentally, I posted more details of my epic jig battle over at my blog, here and here in case anyone wants to check it out.

[Onboard]

Wow, I had no idea those existed! I had to google it, and then found the bit over at Eagle America. I think if I had known about that I would certainly have gone that way, Onboard. Dang it! I typically don't like to buy router bits for one time use, so I may have cheaped out. But knowing what a PITA it turned out to be to come up with a decent jig solution, I would call the $50 money well spent on this one.

Incidentally, I posted more details of my epic jig battle over at my blog, here and here in case anyone wants to check it out.

That’s quite a jig. Very interesting. Here’s a bit I found that is the same as the Eagle bit, but with Eagles reputation and the fact it’s the same price, I would go with the Eagle.

The rail looks very sturdy, not to mention it’s nice looking also. I’m sure your mother in-law will greatly appreciate it.

[AMarshall]

That’s quite a jig. Very interesting.

Lol, yeah I thought I was nuts too!