Texfire Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 I had an epiphany this morning. In the middle of my back and forth deliberations on a 6" vs 8" jointer, with an occasional 12" jointer/planer thrown into the mix, I realized that I have no idea what width boards I realistically need to be able to work. I'm afraid that once again, I'm guilty of putting the tool desire before the project need. Some thoughts on how I got here. 12" has been my touchstone for capacities, mostly because I had planned on getting a 12-13" lunchbox planer at some point. My JET bandsaw has 12" of cut and resaw capacity, which really helped with the bandsawn box that I made. My Bosch miter saw has 14" capacity. My ill chosen purchase of the JET 10" benchtop jointer/planer was in search of that capacity. I'm set okay for working with sheet stock, between my TS55 and a Bosch 4100 table saw I can size and rip sheets just fine. But how did I arrive at 12" as being my desired capacity for sizing and cutting rough stock? I guess it started with envisioning a bookshelf width of 12", using a single board for the sides, shelves and tops. Add in the desire to make a workbench and that wide planer started looking necessary. But I'm not sure that my assumptions were right. Do I really need to be able to work with 12" rough stock? Should I instead plan on glue ups or plywood carcasses for that hypothetical bookshelf? What capacity do I really need to be able to make bookshelves, boxes, and tables? How wide is wide enough in your experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenMinshall Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 With limited floor space, I think it's reasonable to have the smaller tools at home and just hire out the milling on larger stock. For everyday stuff I find the 6" jointer adequate. In the rare case I want to preserve a wide board in one piece, I pay the hardwood dealer to face joint it for me on their big machine. Last time I had them do it it was like $15 for the minimum milling charge, and I probably could have had a few more boards done for the minimum charge too. It takes a lot of $15 transactions to make up for the difference between a 6" and 8" jointer both in cost and square feet. I've never used a jointer/planer combo but in my experience with other machines; those that do two functions tend to do each half as well. Separate machines are going to be a lot easier to keep tuned up and much more streamlined workflow when you don't have to convert it back-and-forth between operations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texfire Posted June 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 I've never used a jointer/planer combo but in my experience with other machines; those that do two functions tend to do each half as well. Separate machines are going to be a lot easier to keep tuned up and much more streamlined workflow when you don't have to convert it back-and-forth between operations. I'd totally agree with you in general, after all I had a pretty bad experience with the benchtop combo unit which had cheap plastic and aluminum to save cost. But I'm talking about their Grizzly 12" jointer/planer, which is a totally different beast, lots of heavy iron. But an excellent point. The only reason I considered it is space savings and it costing less than the two separate tools in general. But I'm not sold on a combo yet, just idly musing. I'm leaning towards a quality 6" with parallelogram tables and a spiral head right now, pairing that with a quality planer in the future, and making do with the planer function of my benchtop combo for now. What I'm trying to do is figure out what capacity I need before settling on any tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenMinshall Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 Wow that Grizzly 12" combo looks like a very solid machine; seriously worth considering. I see they also have a spiral cutter head option too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnell Hagen Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 I use a 12" jointer, in the last ten years I think I've maxed it out maybe a half dozen times. That said, I still lust for a 16". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 I use a 12" jointer, in the last ten years I think I've maxed it out maybe a half dozen times. That said, I still lust for a 16". I have a 12" as well, but I cant help but feel the same way.. Hey Tex, I would go for the 8". You are going to have a bunch of those boards that fit in that 6.5" - 8" area that you are going to want to use. and it is gonna kill you when you need that 8" board for something.. just my 2 cents.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Tex, Bottom line. Always buy the best you can afford at the time. The square footage comes into that equation, too. Yes, it is wonderful to be able to joint wider boards with my 12" Griz, but is it necessary? No. Do I regret my purchase? HELL NO! I love being able to work in 12" width all the way through a process. I purposely didn't go bigger than 12" simply because when I researched lumber prices, anything beyond 12" seemed to jump significantly. Up to 12" they are still pretty much the same for board/feet. Also, the ability to design in 12" width is a big plus for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBear Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 I'll chime in and say that it really depends on how often you would use it. If it's not that often, build a planer sled for those odd times, and save the money to buy more wood instead That's the road I'm currently travelling, and so far, it works well. Mileage may vary.. My 2cents.. Regards, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texfire Posted June 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Another point to consider. I've been looking at 6" jointers with parallelogram tables and spiral cutterheads. I could get an 8" base model for cheaper, any real world performance difference for the options? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan S Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 It's much much easier to align the beds of a parallelogram jointer. Spiral cutter heads make freshing the cutters easy, as it unscrew the insert and turn it 90 degrees, or unscrew it and put a new insert in it's place. However some spiral heads are better than others. Cheap heads have the inserts arranged in a spiral fashion, but the inserts are still perpendicular to the axis of rotation. High end heads like Byrd have the inserts at an angle to the axis of rotation, this produces a shearing cut (better). Another point to consider. I've been looking at 6" jointers with parallelogram tables and spiral cutterheads. I could get an 8" base model for cheaper, any real world performance difference for the options? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konkers Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Another point to consider. I've been looking at 6" jointers with parallelogram tables and spiral cutterheads. I could get an 8" base model for cheaper, any real world performance difference for the options? One thing to consider is that with some models you can upgrade your cutterhead later. You'll never be able to upgrade to a parallelogram without buying a whole new machine. I'm a huge proponent of the parallelogram jointer design because of how much easier it is to get the tables coplanar. Which 6" have you been looking at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texfire Posted June 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I'm looking at all of them, but I keep coming back to Grizzly. Seems to have the best price/performance and good reviews. 6" http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-Jointer-1-1-2HP-w-Spiral-Cutterhead/G0604ZX 8" http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-x-72-Jointer-with-Spiral-Cutterhead-and-Mobile-Base-Polar-Bear-Series-/G0656PX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 That is a tough decision you have there. I am not sure what I would do if I had to pick parallelogram beds over the spiral head. Both have their things that make them so nice. The nice bed, adjust-ability, the spiral head, blade life and easy of changing blades, though it may take you a bit longer. you could get the parallelogram jointer with the straight knives now, and upgrade later on if you so choose to the spiral head. You can get them from Grizzly for $325. Tough choice man. Good luck. Just was looking a little, not sure what you budget is like, but for about $100 more, you can have 8", with longer parallelogram beds than the one that you linked, and a spiral head.. http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0490X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texfire Posted June 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 All good advice, and I agree, I lean towards the better 8" with the spiral head, but do I need that capacity? How much capacity do I really need? What calls for an 8" jointer? Besides a board more than 6" wide that is. What do ya'll do that uses that capacity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 All good advice, and I agree, I lean towards the better 8" with the spiral head, but do I need that capacity? How much capacity do I really need? What calls for an 8" jointer? Besides a board more than 6" wide that is. What do ya'll do that uses that capacity? The panels on the cradle were cut from two 11" plus board edge glued. It really made a difference in the look, as opposed to it being 3 or more boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konkers Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 I'm looking at all of them, but I keep coming back to Grizzly. Seems to have the best price/performance and good reviews. 6" http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-Jointer-1-1-2HP-w-Spiral-Cutterhead/G0604ZX 8" http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-x-72-Jointer-with-Spiral-Cutterhead-and-Mobile-Base-Polar-Bear-Series-/G0656PX If you're in the ~$1000 range, I'd definitely go with parallelogram (http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-Jointer-with-Parallelogram-Beds/G0490) over the spiral cutter. The spiral cutter head can be bought later and there are plenty of species of wood that will mill just fine with straight knives. -Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 That is a tough decision you have there. I am not sure what I would do if I had to pick parallelogram beds over the spiral head. Both have their things that make them so nice. The nice bed, adjust-ability, the spiral head, blade life and easy of changing blades, though it may take you a bit longer. you could get the parallelogram jointer with the straight knives now, and upgrade later on if you so choose to the spiral head. You can get them from Grizzly for $325. Tough choice man. Good luck. Just was looking a little, not sure what you budget is like, but for about $100 more, you can have 8", with longer parallelogram beds than the one that you linked, and a spiral head.. http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0490X That's a parallelogram bed? How can you tell? The page didn't say so explicitly. I'm in the same boat needing to choose one luxury or the other, but I'd sure like to swing both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texfire Posted June 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 That's a parallelogram bed? How can you tell? The page didn't say so explicitly. I'm in the same boat needing to choose one luxury or the other, but I'd sure like to swing both. http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2011/Main/42 The catalog page for that jointer lists the parallelogram beds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 If you HAVE to choose between helical heads and a parallelogram bed...go with the bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texfire Posted June 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 I don't know that I have to choose one or the other. The jointer is going to wait until I finish the current shop projects. I need to wire in some 220v outlets, insulate and put siding on the walls, finish wiring the light fixtures and sheetrock the ceiling, finishing by installing a air conditioner. Only after all that has happened, is it time to look at funds and consider replacing my barely adequate jointer/planer. I'm inclined to save pennies and go whole loaf(8", parallelogram, spiral cutterhead), I just want a reason why the current "wonder tool" I'm lusting after will make my hobby easier, or allow me to do something I wouldn't be able to do otherwise. That's why I'm questioning what I gain, not just what I buy. I'm not trying to be difficult, I appreciate all the input. I'm just trying to be more involved in my decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 I don't know that I have to choose one or the other. The jointer is going to wait until I finish the current shop projects. I need to wire in some 220v outlets, insulate and put siding on the walls, finish wiring the light fixtures and sheetrock the ceiling, finishing by installing a air conditioner. Only after all that has happened, is it time to look at funds and consider replacing my barely adequate jointer/planer. I'm inclined to save pennies and go whole loaf(8", parallelogram, spiral cutterhead), I just want a reason why the current "wonder tool" I'm lusting after will make my hobby easier, or allow me to do something I wouldn't be able to do otherwise. That's why I'm questioning what I gain, not just what I buy. I'm not trying to be difficult, I appreciate all the input. I'm just trying to be more involved in my decisions. As you should. The biggest gain to working in a bigger width is purely aesthetics. To me, it is worth it. You have to look at what you plan to do. Will you be designing your pieces? Are you going for a higher end look? Do your designs incorporate larger panels? Lots to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMarcel Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 You can use a planer sled to face-joint wider boards than your jointer. Obviously if 50%+ of your boards are over 6", a 6" jointer is going to be less useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmaichel Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 You are already in the $1000 plus range and I assume that you are planning on keeping this jointer for a long period of time. If you have the money don't compromise get what you want, especially if you are buying new. Good Luck! James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konkers Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 I'm inclined to save pennies and go whole loaf(8", parallelogram, spiral cutterhead), I just want a reason why the current "wonder tool" I'm lusting after will make my hobby easier, or allow me to do something I wouldn't be able to do otherwise. That's why I'm questioning what I gain, not just what I buy. Heres what each gives you: 8": I find that almost half the boards that go through my shop are in the 6" - 8" range. 8" is a sweet spot for a jointer for me. The rare larger board, I'm fine hand planing it flat enough to go through the planer.parallelogram: Makes adjusting the tables to be coplanar possible without a huge amount of effort and luck. Even my 8" powermatic parallelogram jointer needed adjustment from the factory. The adjustment went smoothly and only took ~ 45mins.spiral cutter head: ability to work with highly figured/tear out prone woods. I've got some ribbon stripe mahogany right now that has me lusting after a spiral cutterhead upgrade. The 8", parallelogram, spiral cutterhead G0490X will likely last you for a VERY long time. Hard to go wrong with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texfire Posted June 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 As you should. The biggest gain to working in a bigger width is purely aesthetics. To me, it is worth it. You have to look at what you plan to do. Will you be designing your pieces? Are you going for a higher end look? Do your designs incorporate larger panels? Lots to think about. Ah, you managed to put it into words that I was fumbling for. In theory I'd love a 12" jointer and planer, but I don't think I'm going to be doing the panel work to require that capacity, and I'm not sure I have the space to dedicate to it. I don't know what designs I'm going to be coming up with, but I'm still learning so that's okay. Right now I take on projects that interest me, or that I feel like I'm going to learn from like the guild builds. I have the usual projects percolating back in my brain, some side tables for my bedroom, a coffee table, bookshelves and various shop fixtures. But I haven't found one area of woodworking that makes me say, "this is what I want to focus on". But I'm enjoying the learning process. You can use a planer sled to face-joint wider boards than your jointer. Obviously if 50%+ of your boards are over 6", a 6" jointer is going to be less useful. I was trying to figure out how to face plane 12" lumber for solid bookcase sides and having trouble visualizing it, you put your finger on it. With a lunchbox planer and a sled, that becomes possible and the width of the jointer only critical for edge jointing. Though I suspect that using a planer sled for more than a couple of boards per project would get old fast. You are already in the $1000 plus range and I assume that you are planning on keeping this jointer for a long period of time. If you have the money don't compromise get what you want, especially if you are buying new. Good Luck! James Heres what each gives you: 8": I find that almost half the boards that go through my shop are in the 6" - 8" range. 8" is a sweet spot for a jointer for me. The rare larger board, I'm fine hand planing it flat enough to go through the planer.parallelogram: Makes adjusting the tables to be coplanar possible without a huge amount of effort and luck. Even my 8" powermatic parallelogram jointer needed adjustment from the factory. The adjustment went smoothly and only took ~ 45mins.spiral cutter head: ability to work with highly figured/tear out prone woods. I've got some ribbon stripe mahogany right now that has me lusting after a spiral cutterhead upgrade. The 8", parallelogram, spiral cutterhead G0490X will likely last you for a VERY long time. Hard to go wrong with it. I think that's the jointer that I'm going to get. I don't want to regret not ponying up a little more later. Your description of the details of how those features benefit in a real world made me understand them better. Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.