getting started with nothing but a little space and a little green

[Ken Wilsbach]

at the suggestion of another member, i'm here for some help spending that little green. It turns out that there is a lot to consider when setting up shop. I know i need, everything... i've began my hunt, where one would expect, at the local big name store, Lowes. The lack of shipping charges is a huge draw, but are the tools worth it?

My budget is supposed to be 2k, but i've been considering stretching it to 3k so i can include a planer and jointer.

I really need everything. My sister in law has a jigsaw and circular saw available to me, and i own a cordless drill. I know i can get by, but i'm really looking to jump in and get both feed wet w/ a table saw, drill press, router, planer, jointer.

i need a little help picking out the best i can on my budget while still getting everything i need.

I also need things to be movable since the garage will still be used as a garage... so i was contemplating the porter cable table saw from lowes as that includes castors that can be raised or lowered

[jsiard]

If you really want your money to go as far as possible one of the best ways to do it is with pre-enjoyed machines. The key is patience, you need to know what you are looking for and don't jump on the first thing that comes along. There are a lot of gems out there but more often than not are outnumbered by junk. Unfortunately some people selling used machines have an unrealistic idea of what a used piece of equipment should sell for, many times not factoring in the condition of the machine. Typically I would never spend more than half of what I could buy the machine for new, condition notwithstanding. This can also be tricky if you don’t have any Idea of what to look for, bearings, table flatness etc., just because the motor runs doesn’t mean it’s good to go.

Some items I would rarely if ever buy used, RO sanders, drills, routers etc. are pretty much throw away items unless you know who you are buying from, even then it can be risky. When I am ready to buy I do as much research as possible such as price, quality and so forth, fortunately this site is a tremendous resource for that information. As far as mobility is concerned you can pick up a mobile base in most cases for under $200.

Whether this is going to be a casual hobby or a serious one plays a big part in the decision, it's a craft that's fraught with frustration and inferior equipment makes it doubly so. Remember you can always trade up, something most if not all wood workers have done at one point or another. I have been getting buy with my 6” Jet jointer for the past 20 years and am just getting ready to pull the trigger on its replacement.

Be patient and buy quality. I don’t mind digging the hole but I hate digging it twice!

[duckkisser]

If you really want your money to go as far as possible one of the best ways to do it is with pre-enjoyed machines. The key is patience, you need to know what you are looking for and don't jump on the first thing that comes along. There are a lot of gems out there but more often than not are outnumbered by junk. Unfortunately some people selling used machines have an unrealistic idea of what a used piece of equipment should sell for, many times not factoring in the condition of the machine. Typically I would never spend more than half of what I could buy the machine for new, condition notwithstanding. This can also be tricky if you don’t have any Idea of what to look for, bearings, table flatness etc., just because the motor runs doesn’t mean it’s good to go. Some items I would rarely if ever buy used, RO sanders, drills, routers etc. are pretty much throw away items unless you know who you are buying from, even then it can be risky. When I am ready to buy I do as much research as possible such as price, quality and so forth, fortunately this site is a tremendous resource for that information. As far as mobility is concerned you can pick up a mobile base in most cases for under $200. Whether this is going to be a casual hobby or a serious one plays a big part in the decision, it's a craft that's fraught with frustration and inferior equipment makes it doubly so. Remember you can always trade up, something most if not all wood workers have done at one point or another. I have been getting buy with my 6” Jet jointer for the past 20 years and am just getting ready to pull the trigger on its replacement. Be patient and buy quality. I don’t mind digging the hole but I hate digging it twice!

+1 figure out what you want to make and then make it and buy the tools you need as you need it. most basic tools you can find pretty cheap on craigslist and the paper. eventually it will show up. for instance i bought a delta scroll saw for 70 bucks.....new it was 300. it was in great shape the guy who owned it was just getting too old and was tired of having it and not being able to work on it. recently i got a lathe new but i wanted the best so i would not have to trade up 20 years down the line and since then as i make a project i buy a new part or attachment. i am making a big clock need cole jaws bought them AS i needed for the job. slow down a bit and trust me you can do alot with few tools i made bunch of keepsake boxes using only table saw and scroll saw that turned out realy nice. like i tell the kids if you go to fast you will make mistakes and those mistakes will cause you more work down the line.

What type of tools are you looking for specifically if this is a business venture then get industrial tools they will take the repeated use and heavy damage.

http://chicago.craig...2881160142.html drill press in chicago area smaller press for day to day operation

http://chicago.craig...2859214746.html heavier 3phase drill for bigger heaver metals and wood etc....both are cheaper then if you got at store.

if you have questions feel free to send me a message

[Eric.]

This question comes up so often. "I have X dollars and want to set up a shop...what should I buy?" That's nearly impossible to answer without asking these prerequisite questions first:

How serious am I about this hobby? Is this a very casual thing or am I obsessed and in love? Will it possibly be a fling, something I give up on eventually? Or am I certain I'll stay in love and this will be a life-long relationship?

If it's the latter, the conventional wisdom would be to buy machines that you won't have to upgrade in the future, which are significantly more costly than what you'll buy from the box stores. Three grand will get you started, but won't get you too far. If you think you'll be a casual hobbyist, and hobbyist-grade tools are plenty sufficient for you, three grand can get you a nearly comprehensive shop if you're a frugal shopper. But chances are, if you get more and more serious, you'll eventually want to upgrade a lot of those tools and will end up spending more money in the long run by buying tools twice.

Once you've answered those questions, then ask yourself, "What projects do I want to build?" And the answer to that will tell you which tools to buy first, and hopefully if you answered both questions correctly, you won't ever have to regret your purchases.

I pondered these questions for about two years, saving money all the while, before I made a major financial commitment. And I'm glad I took my time, thought long and hard about it, and researched until my mouse finger went numb and my eyes were crossed.

[dwacker]

I would spend every penny on a tablesaw, jointer and planer and get the biggest and best you can possibly afford. The rest can be nickle and dimed later. FWIW Laguna is having a march madness sale with no shipping. You could get a combo jointer planer and 10" table saw for 2900 shipped to your door. Those two units would last most hobbies a lifetime.

Don

[SignWave]

My advise (which may or may not be what you are asking for) is to start with what you have, and build your skills along the way. You say that you have a circurlar saw and jig saw. You can do a lot with those for starters using sheet goods and some basic jigs (like a straight edge guide for the circ saw). A decent corded drill will do most of what you can do with a drill press (but not everything). One tool that I can see adding is a decent mid powered (e.g. 2 1/4 HP) router with a fixed and plunge base. You can use it hand held (with jigs) to not only shape edges, but do things like dados and rabbets. You can use it to build a router table and fence.

You'll soon have new skills and insight into what you need, and you can use all of this to build up a workspace that has storage cabinets, working surfaces, and jigs to do a good variety of tasks.

The possible drawback of what I'm suggesting is that you can end up spending all your time building jigs and shop furniture, but IMHO, it's the skills that you build along the way that will help you solve problems throughout your woodworking journey and add wisdom through experience, rather than just buying expensive tools that you may or may not be able to use to their potential.

Above all, have fun and be safe!

[Ken Wilsbach]

I'm fairly certain this will be a serious hobby that lasts with me for a lifetime. I have, for years wanted to begin wood working and furniture making. It's only been recently, with a very nice tax refund, that i decided i could actually invest into getting started... and started researching. I should have been researching all this time! I honestly didnt think i'd have a chance to begin though.

I've been refusing to buy furniture for some time now. I'm appalled by the quality of the commercial stuff that i find, and for the price it's being sold for. i can make better furniture that will last through my son's life.

I don't want to get started with what i have, because i don't feel it's enough to actually get started in such a way where i'm enjoying the hobby. in a way, i'm lazy. i won't kid you or myself. i want the ease of using power tools to rip through wood to get it where i need it quickly. but i also want to spend my time where it's needed in the finishing aspects, the joinery, sanding and finishing a piece of beautiful furniture that I made and can take pride in. now, i'm not THAT lazy... but you get the idea.

i'm willing to work w/ "not the best, but it will do" tools. Honestly though... i think the biggest things for me would be a planer, jointer, and table saw. a drill press would be real nice, but i guess it's not "required" just as a band saw would be real nice to have.

[Ken Wilsbach]

so i'm currently looking at getting started with the

grizzly hybrid saw: http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Hybrid-Table-Saw-with-Riving-Knife-Polar-Bear-Series-/G0715P

grizzly 6" jointer: http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-x-46-Jointer-with-Mobile-Base-Polar-Bear-Series-/G0452P

dewalt planer: http://www.lowes.com/pd_221858-70-DW735_0__?productId=1061489&Ntt=planer&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dplaner&facetInfo=

dewalt router: http://www.lowes.com/pd_93023-70-DW618B3_0__?productId=3509376&Ntt=router&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Drouter&facetInfo=

this will put me around the 2400 mark, leaving $600 or so for shop equipment like clamps, router bits, saw blades, DC, etc. I wanted a drill press for the mortis bits, but i can handle all that by hand and w/ the router. i have a jigsaw for curves, a cordless drill for pilot holes (though i prefer to be using wood only joints)

I still have a couple months, i think, before i bite the bullet and pony up the money for the tools. in the mean time i'll continue my research and book reading.

[STL Woodguy]

I've been refusing to buy furniture for some time now. I'm appalled by the quality of the commercial stuff that i find, and for the price it's being sold for. i can make better furniture that will last through my son's life.

Kinda why I got into it. I'm a 'have it MY way' kind of guy. Got sick of looking at furniture at stores for outrageous prices and poor construction, amazing what they try and sneak particleboard into nowadays. On top of that, I'm also an artist and art furniture (good easels, desks, etc) are insanely expensive.

One thing to warn is that it might not always be a more budget route, tools and equipment are expensive and I probably could have bought most of the furniture I wanted with that money instead. But I don't mind. For one, I can make things and modify them the way *I* want it to be made. Second, it's the journey, and when I look at something, I can say "there's only one in the world, and I did that."

The good news with any hobby is, once you're past that initial expense and have everything you need, that's where you reap the benefit of the entry costs. I put out a lot to get into my art, but the only things I have to buy these days is paint / medium / etc. when I run out. Likewise with woodworking, I own just about all the main power tools I need (still working on hand tools), and those will last me many, many years (and be exceptionally helpful when I eventually get a house).

Honestly though... i think the biggest things for me would be a planer, jointer, and table saw. a drill press would be real nice, but i guess it's not "required" just as a band saw would be real nice to have.

Some might disagree, but you might be able to cut corners and leave the jointer out (at least for now). I would LOVE a jointer, but I cannot currently get one as I'm nearly maxed out on room. I flatten edges with either a hand plane or my router fence. Face jointing can be done either with a hand plane or a specialty jig for a planer.

so i'm currently looking at getting started with the grizzly hybrid saw: http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Hybrid-Table-Saw-with-Riving-Knife-Polar-Bear-Series-/G0715P grizzly 6" jointer: http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-x-46-Jointer-with-Mobile-Base-Polar-Bear-Series-/G0452P dewalt planer: http://www.lowes.com/pd_221858-70-DW735_0__?productId=1061489&Ntt=planer&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dplaner&facetInfo= dewalt router: http://www.lowes.com/pd_93023-70-DW618B3_0__?productId=3509376&Ntt=router&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Drouter&facetInfo=

Don't know about the other things, but that's a good and popular planer. Figure in an extra $50 on extension wings (if that's not the version that doesn't come with them), kind of a necessity to help with snipe. It's tempting to hook it to a ShopVac if that's all you got, but don't do it, it may clog (speak from experience). Hook that planer to a dust collector and it's great.

[duckkisser]

you forgot a dust collector plan on some decent dust collecting as far as im concerned that is a must to keep shop clean and healthy.

[Ken Wilsbach]

Some might disagree, but you might be able to cut corners and leave the jointer out (at least for now). I would LOVE a jointer, but I cannot currently get one as I'm nearly maxed out on room. I flatten edges with either a hand plane or my router fence. Face jointing can be done either with a hand plane or a specialty jig for a planer.

can you explain using the router fence to flatten edges? i was under the impression that you want to use the jointer on an edge and face before running through a planer. I'd love to know of some other options to maybe cut where i'm spending in some areas to get "more stuff"

you forgot a dust collector plan on some decent dust collecting as far as im concerned that is a must to keep shop clean and healthy.

nope, DC is after saw blades! I'm going to order the cheapy HF unit and purchase a kit for the filter itself.

[dwacker]

I would skip the planer and jointer and step up a little to something like this.

http://www.lagunatools.com/combo/combo-platinum10s

Don

[Ken Wilsbach]

I would skip the planer and jointer and step up a little to something like this.

http://www.lagunatoo...mbo-platinum10s

Don

that's a bit wild for a beginner and about $600 more than a jointer and planer. I understand the benefit of that machine though and if i could find one for a grand i would probably bite

maybe this instead: http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Jointer-Planer-Combo/G0675

[dwacker]

that's a bit wild for a beginner and about $600 more than a jointer and planer. I understand the benefit of that machine though and if i could find one for a grand i would probably bite

That is a beginner machine. I think if you plan on doing furniture you will out grow the 6" with your first project.

Don

[Ken Wilsbach]

is there any major reason not to get the cheaper grizzly?

[dwacker]

is there any major reason not to get the cheaper grizzly?

Its only 6" wide. 8" is really about as small as Id suggest. Its only 1hp, which is underpowered. Its a straight knife, the laguna is helical. You can add a mortiser to the laguna, which is a huge plus. The laguna albeit one of the cheapest is much more of a machine that you may never out grow. Laguna shipping is free this month and the machine is on sale on top of that. The dust collection on the laguna is going to be better than the griz and the dewalt planer. The planer part is going to cut much cleaner than the dewalt and much quieter. All in all its just a better piece of equipment.

Don

[Eric.]

They'll both do the job but the Laguna is a nicer machine. The 10" jointing capacity would be cool and it's a space saver in the shop. But personally I'd just save a few hundred more and get dedicated machines...8" jointer and 15" planer. Some people like the combo machines or have no choice because of space limitations, but they seem like a PITA to me and I'd hate having to switch it around and set it up all the time.

[Ken Wilsbach]

Its only 6" wide. 8" is really about as small as Id suggest. Its only 1hp, which is underpowered. Its a straight knife, the laguna is helical. You can add a mortiser to the laguna, which is a huge plus. The laguna albeit one of the cheapest is much more of a machine that you may never out grow. Laguna shipping is free this month and the machine is on sale on top of that. The dust collection on the laguna is going to be better than the griz and the dewalt planer. The planer part is going to cut much cleaner than the dewalt and much quieter. All in all its just a better piece of equipment.

Don

i mean in comparison to this one:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Jointer-Planer-Combo/G0675

a combo from grizzly

[dwacker]

i mean in comparison to this one:

http://www.grizzly.c...ner-Combo/G0675

a combo from grizzly

Thats only a two knife cutter so would not be a true 10" would max at 6" or less. It has the HP but not enough cutter to face joint a 10" board. The planer portion is also going to be terrible.

Don

[Ken Wilsbach]

if the difference between a good joint and not is a grand, i may just look into other options. I'm not able to invest in such an expensive machine at this time. perhaps i'll settle for a nice table saw and go from there

[dwacker]

if the difference between a good joint and not is a grand, i may just look into other options. I'm not able to invest in such an expensive machine at this time. perhaps i'll settle for a nice table saw and go from there

You can get by with your original plan but will just outgrow it very quickly. You would be surprised what you can do with less but it leaves you in this never ending state of wanting more.

Don

[Ken Wilsbach]

that's understandable. i think it would take a few years to outgrow the other items though. I haven't touched a real wood project since high school.

that 1700 machine is super nice... and super amazing. but it's nearly my original budget. I'd prefer to put together a decent hobbyist shop and get some "not as awesome" equipment to start out. if i get a cheaper jointer, i'll get a hand plane to clean up the edge.

perhaps i'll start looking into some hand tools instead of relying entirely on power

[duckkisser]

that's understandable. i think it would take a few years to outgrow the other items though. I haven't touched a real wood project since high school.

that 1700 machine is super nice... and super amazing. but it's nearly my original budget. I'd prefer to put together a decent hobbyist shop and get some "not as awesome" equipment to start out. if i get a cheaper jointer, i'll get a hand plane to clean up the edge.

perhaps i'll start looking into some hand tools instead of relying entirely on power

I know i have already posted on here but i still want to impart the stupid moments that i have made. the thing i was told when i first started is that lesser quality tools dont sell so dont buy to start with(guilty). and better tools like the dewalt planer will sell used for almost same price as you paid. so say you had a dewalt planer new and then wanted to upgrade to a powermatic planer that has 220 v then you can get most of your original money back.(thinking of doing for school) or you can just buy a powermatic planer(example of high end machine) when you start if you know you will need a heavy type machine. if you just buying for a home shop you probably will at most use a 200-300 bf a year and wont need to mill alot of timber my school used 500-1000 bf a year depending on the project we are doing do we might need a more powerful planer so we dont burn out the motor on planer. just saying figure out exactly what you will need and get your ducks in a row because if you get serous then you could spend thousands extra that you could have saved.

your core machine's table saw, jointer, planer, band saw, dust collector can create a good or junk shop so buy carefully. other stuff like scroll saws and lathes can wait till you decide you can use em and find them for sale for cheap. i started with a lathe because i wont have lots of room to work for a few years and a lathe takes up a small footprint but still allows me to work on some prity cool projects using wood from the fire pile while cabinets involves at least table saw, jointer, and planer and lots of space to build on.

cheap tools work cheap and at some point the most expensive tool like festool(dont kill me guys) works great but while it better its not much better then powermatic. just remember that the tools does not make the better worker some of the best projects i have found were made were built with old hand tools, carving knives, and sandpaper and patience. start shopping around online stop in to stores that sell tools and get to know the sales men. i ask a few questions that a decent tool user would know and make friends with some of the older sales men. they usually know how the tools work and which are a better buy plus then can tell you if there is a sale coming up. take your time about buying if you rush you could lose money time, and patience find the right deal and buy as you need a tool start small and slow and figure out what you want to do till you feel you comfortable enough to tackle big projects.

[STL Woodguy]

can you explain using the router fence to flatten edges? i was under the impression that you want to use the jointer on an edge and face before running through a planer. I'd love to know of some other options to maybe cut where i'm spending in some areas to get "more stuff"

Keep in mind the end goal you want is not necessarily running it through a jointer, but simply to get a flat reference bottom and side edge. How you do that is up to you, jointer or not.

Router table: If you offset/raise the outfeed fence on a router table by a fraction (1/32, 1/16, etc) and put a straight edge bit into the router and feed the board's edge through it, what you essentially have is a small jointer. Kreg's router fence (and a few other knockoffs) has a nifty shim that you can stick behind the outfeed fence to joint boards, though you can certainly make your own jointing fence by adding a piece of laminate or whatever to the outfeed side to raise it.

Face jointing is a different story, you can't really do that on a router table. So as I said, hand planes...but it will take more work than the edges (depending on board size) and you may want winding sticks to check your work. The other way is a planer sled as mentioned.

One other thing, you don't always have to do the milling yourself. You can get flat S2S, S3S, etc boards at a hardwood shop / lumber yard. Yep, those boards cost a little more, but that's much easier to swallow when you're getting started rather than having to buy machines / power tools all in one gulp.

[Fah-Fah-Fooey]

I would recomend watching for sales and watching the classifieds while you decide what tools you need. You never know what kind of sales you will come across and you can sometimes stack a lot of store discounts together, ex demo model discount ontop of a sale price with a store gift card on purchases over xxx amount. Or what kind of deals you can find in the classifieds, if the seller knows little about the tool they can greatly underestimate the value of it or unfortunatly overestimate it. You can find quality used tools if your welling to spend the time and know a little about them or how to work the google.

Don't be afriad of buying cheaper tools (they're not all crap) in order to get you by until you upgrade later on, store brand tools can come on sale for extremly low prices compared to the better quality brand name tools, often thier price plus the price of the better tool (which you managed to hold off getting until you found a deal to good to pass up) will be the same or less then the better tool buy its self. You can also see just how much you actually use the tool, maybe it turns out you don't even use it or you find out that you use it for everything and want to go top of the line for its replacement, example bisquit joiner i got a master craft one for $46 vs $850 for a festool domino. Turns out I don't like bisquits, and have yet to use the thing, but at one time I really thought I needed one. The point is its hard to know what tools you will use and how much you will use them if you do.

I would also suggest building your first projetcs out of pine, its cheap so it doesn't hurt as bad when you mess up and it can end up looking quite nice its also has the added advantage of comming in convient shapes and sizes so you don't need a planer or a jointer to get started, so you can put that money aside until you find a really good deal on one. Plus its good practice for finishing and will demonstate the need for proper sanding, grain raising, making sure your shop insn't full of dust thats gonna settle in your finish.

My recommendations for tools to start with are a good table saw with a flat cast iron top, a sled for the table saw, a plunge router, a quality square and tap measure, ear muffs, dust mask, a quality saw blade, the 40 router bit sets that the block store sell for $80-ish are not a bad place to start and will let you see which bits you use and you can replace them as you go alone with high end bits (check store reviews on the quality), just stay away from the no name chinese bits they break, a set of block store drill bits its always good to have a cheap-ish set of drill bits (read reviews as these vary alot in quality and they do paint the less common sizes to match the other ones, thats why they break so easy, but they're cheap and you can replace them with better bits as you need to), and you need CLAMPS CLAMPS CLAMPS there is a reason Mark has so many of them and these can very wildly in quality i have a bunch of Mastercraft Clamps and find them to be pretty good on sale i got like 16 of them for the price of 2 of the K body bessey clamps, I will upgrade down the road as i still need more clamps anyway but for now they work.

Anyway the important thing is too start building and see what tools you need