Thinner end grain cutting board

[Yetiwood]

Hi. I'm brand new to wood working, and am considering making an end grain cutting board like the one featured on the podcast for my mom for Christmas.

I was hoping to make it thinner (like 1/2" or 3/4") so that it would be lighter, and easier for her to handle. I just wanted to check in with the experts and get an idea of any problems or complications this may entail. First, I understand that slicing it thinner on the table saw is a concern, is it too small to be done safely? Will it tear out? Is that too thin for the board to be stable, and possibly split easier? Are there any other concerns I should be aware of?

I appreciate any input on this. The podcast itself has been a big encouragement for me to get into woodworking, which i was considering for a while as a hobby, but it's not cheap to get started, and at first seemed a bit daunting. Having the podcast has really helped me understand how to get started, and I'm looking forward to learning such a creative and useful skill. Thanks Marc.

[Beechwood Chip]

When you clamp it for the glue up, the thinner pieces are more likely to pop out of alignment, because you have less vertical surface where they are resting against each other. You can use cauls (straight scrap-wood) and clamps to keep the pieces lined up. Putting packing tape on the cauls will prevent them from getting glued to the cutting board.

[dryhter]

Hi. I'm brand new to wood working, and am considering making an end grain cutting board like the one featured on the podcast for my mom for Christmas.

I was hoping to make it thinner (like 1/2" or 3/4") so that it would be lighter, and easier for her to handle. I just wanted to check in with the experts and get an idea of any problems or complications this may entail. First, I understand that slicing it thinner on the table saw is a concern, is it too small to be done safely? Will it tear out? Is that too thin for the board to be stable, and possibly split easier? Are there any other concerns I should be aware of?

I appreciate any input on this. The podcast itself has been a big encouragement for me to get into woodworking, which i was considering for a while as a hobby, but it's not cheap to get started, and at first seemed a bit daunting. Having the podcast has really helped me understand how to get started, and I'm looking forward to learning such a creative and useful skill. Thanks Marc.

Hey Yeti,

You could probably do it safely with caution and maybe a jig or two. Maybe, but should not be to bad, depending on what blade you have and your table saw. I think so, I think you will have problems keeping it stable and not warping. Endgrain cutting boards just are not sanitary, even if you try and seal them there are just too many nooks and crannies for gunk and juices to get stuck in and bacteria to start growing.

Yeti, endgrain cutting boards may look pretty, but about all they are good for is use as a serving tray or maybe cutting a little bit of cheese and bread. If you want to make your MOM a useful cutting board, make it out of Northern Hard maple LINK . Make an edge grain cutting board and you can make it 5/8 or a half inch, but I would try and keep it about 3/4 just from a durability stand point.

Good Luck with your project, and Hurry up Christmas will be here befor you know it.

Oh yea, almost forgot welcome aboard, you'r gonna like it here!

[Ben H]

Yeti, endgrain cutting boards may look pretty, but about all they are good for is use as a serving tray or maybe cutting a little bit of cheese and bread. If you want to make your MOM a useful cutting board, make it out of Northern Hard maple. Make an edge grain cutting board and you can make it 5/8 or a half inch, but I would try and keep it about 3/4 just from a durability stand point.

I'm confused. Why is it that end grain boards are only good as serving trays and cheese boards?

[jwidener]

I have to say the more cutting boards you make the tighter they are. When you first start with wood (talking from my experience only) you don't appreciate the set up time as much as you should. That means take your time cutting the pieces and sanding them so they fit together tight before clamping and gluing. If they are tight before you glue I promise they should be tight after you glue which means no place for germs. Of course wiping after use helps too. I also built a jig from some angle iron that makes the process quicker for me and a little easier.

All the boards I have made have been from 3/4" to 1 1/8". It is based on the final look your are trying to achieve. Less than 3/4" seems mighty thin to me but I am no pro. Also I used tung oil to finish mine and they seemed to warp a small bit. I just sanded back down.

It may sound dumb, but don't forget to figure the kerf of your blade when cutting into those high dollar boards. I've done it and it sucks. Those 17 or 18 cuts add up real quick across a board.....

Good Luck

[Yetiwood]

Thanks everyone for all of the comments, this forum will obviously be a great resource for me.

I'll take all of this into consideration, especially the safety concerns. Thanks dryhter.

[dryhter]

I'm confused. Why is it that end grain boards are only good as serving trays and cheese boards?

If you look at the structure of wood it is basically a bunch of tubes held together with glue. These tubes are the places where juice and food matter gets into and bacteria can start growing. Granted not all bacteria will harm you, but it is just not sanitary. Many people don't know this and think a cutting board is a cutting board is a cutting board. A cutting board is a tool for a cook just like a saw is for a carpenter, when you try to make something look pretty and lose sight of it's purpose unfavorable results may happen. And unless you have the capability to put the board under vacuum and fill all the tubes with something a surface applied finish won't work.

[thewoodwhisperer]

Im going to very respectively disagree with Dryhter on this one. I don't believe end grain cutting boards are inherently unsanitary and in fact, there's a ton of debate out there on the topic. Actually the debate is usually centered around plastic vs wood, and not end grain vs edge grain. Butcher blocks are usually end grain, and most pro chefs prefer end grain for its durability and the fact that its better for the knifes edge.

As far as I'm concerned, if you keep your boards sanitized and dry, you are going to be fine. And also think about dedicating your boards to either meat or veggies, and not use them for both. My method of applying thinned varnish to the end grain board really works well for me. It does a really good job of sealing from within and preventing the absorption of liquids, which is something you just won't get from mineral oil. I can't claim its more or less sanitary since I haven't had my boards tested. But the method has worked well for me and many others. Mineral oil and wax is always a good choice if you aren't comfortable with varnish.

As for your original question, it all depends on how thin you really want to go. But yes, things will get more difficult and the board is more likely to warp the thinner you go.

[dvoigt]

But doesn't the final thickness of the board depend on how thick you cut the glued slices in half? Meaning that in the video for the cutting board the glued up block was cut into 1 1/4" thick strips (i think), then they were rotated 90 degrees, re-arranged for pattern sake, then glued. If you cut those strips thinner, say 7/8" you could still have a similar looking board, just thinner. Of course the thinner boards may make for a trickier glue up, but take your time and watch it.

I'm in the process of making several for Christmas myself.

Good luck!

D

[Beechwood Chip]

I was looking into the cutting board health safety issue, and I agree with Marc. Some studies showed that plastic was safer than wood, and some showed that wood was safer than plastic. The upshot seems to be that bacteria multiply on plastic cutting boards, but don't multiply significantly on wood cutting boards. On the other hand, plastic cutting boards (without scratches or cuts) can be easily cleaned of nearly all bacteria, while bacteria can go dormant in the grain of wooden cutting boards and might later be able to transfer to food and multiply. But, plastic and edge grain cutting boards usually have scratches or cuts, and that seems to be where the bacteria collect, more than in the grain. End grain cutting boards get fewer scratches and cuts.

To me the risk is with bacteria multiplying, or transferring to something that I'll eat raw. I'm not worried about a small number of bacteria transferring to the meat that I cut up and immediately cook.

Regardless of what type of cutting board you use, the important things are:

• clean cutting boards after every use, or every four hours of continuous use
• Wash anything (cutting boards, knives, utensils, dishes, hands, prep surfaces) that has come in contact with food before using it with a different type of food.
• color coding different cutting boards for meat, poultry, fish, and fruit/vegies is safer and will cut down on the amount of washing needed
• sanitize all food prep surfaces periodically, including cutting boards
• keep cutting board surfaces (plastic or wood) smooth by replacing, scraping, or sanding. Oil wooden surfaces periodically.

If you are doing the above, then you're safe regardless of what kind of cutting boards you are using. If you aren't doing the above, then using a different kind of cutting board is not going to make you safe.

If you are doing all of the above, and you are still worried about bacteria (for example, if someone has a compromised immune system), then you might want to use a quartz or marble cutting board. You'll have to sharpen your knives more often, but there won't be any scratches for bacteria to hide in. And you won't have to replace or resurface them as often.

I'm not a food safety expert. I realize that there are different opinions about this. This is the conclusion I reached after talking to people whose opinion I respected, Googling, etc.

[Nick2cd]

Guys,

the fact of the matter is, we live in a microbial world. bacterial strains are all around us at all times. as long as you use a bit of common sense and are reasonably hygeinic, i don't think you'll run into any problems. i am a believer in Marc's method of thinned salad bowl finish applied in several coats. this fills the wood "tubes" and doesn't allow much room for bacteria, but there will be some bacteria no matter what you do. unless of course you plan to purchase an autoclave and keep your board sealed in autoclave pouches in between each use. take my comments with a grain of salt....they are after all just my humble opinion.

[Renzo]

Instead of thinner I'd go smaller. The first few I made I went 12x12 or so and they aren't all that heavy. Also routing the handles help make them easier to move around.

[dryhter]

Im going to very respectively disagree with Dryhter on this one. I don't believe end grain cutting boards are inherently unsanitary and in fact, there's a ton of debate out there on the topic. Actually the debate is usually centered around plastic vs wood, and not end grain vs edge grain. Butcher blocks are usually end grain, and most pro chefs prefer end grain for its durability and the fact that its better for the knifes edge.

As far as I'm concerned, if you keep your boards sanitized and dry, you are going to be fine. And also think about dedicating your boards to either meat or veggies, and not use them for both. My method of applying thinned varnish to the end grain board really works well for me. It does a really good job of sealing from within and preventing the absorption of liquids, which is something you just won't get from mineral oil. I can't claim its more or less sanitary since I haven't had my boards tested. But the method has worked well for me and many others. Mineral oil and wax is always a good choice if you aren't comfortable with varnish.

As for your original question, it all depends on how thin you really want to go. But yes, things will get more difficult and the board is more likely to warp the thinner you go.

Marc and Beechwood Chip,

I can't disagree with what you have said, there is a lot of debate about cutting boards and their cleanliness and if sanitized regularly and properly there should be no problems. And if the experts can't definitively state which is better who am I to think that my opinion should carry more value than anyone else.

Just some random thoughts that I based my opinion on:

• We talk about endgrain cutting boards and reference them to Butcher's Chopping blocks ( you know those big heavy tables ) , Well I have never seen a Oak or Black Walnut or some other wood other than Hard Maple or Beech and I figure there must be a reason for that. I think that let's say in the last two hundred years or so that if a better wood or other wood could/should be used then you would see those chopping blocks around today, but you don't. Both of these woods have very tight endgrain and possibly/probably other qualities that make them the best choice for the intended purpose.
• Edgegrain cutting boards, and surfaces, once again are Hard Maple and I am pretty sure that that is what was use in the testing, not Oak or Mahogany or some exotic. Walk into any restaurant and you will find Hard Maple cutting surfaces, now why is that? If some other wood species could be used why isn't it. I'm sure some posh restaurant would have some exotic endgrain cutting boards in their kitchen to show off how cutting edge they were if . . .. . if.. ... they could.
• If you really use a cutting board for cutting and cooking, it should not have any finish on it
• Course grain porous woods just don't make sense to me for a cutting board
• Does anybody really go through the rigors of Sanitizing their cutting boards

I guess where this is leading after writing down my thoughts is that I feel there is a big difference between a cutting board as a tool that is used by a cook and a cutting board that is used to serve up some cheese at the Christmas party you are attending. Hopefully the board with the cheese on it wasn't used to make the Stuffed Chicken Breast you will be having for dinner later on.

I think as woodworkers we love to design and build things for our own satisfaction and for the delight of others, we have no control over what happens to something after it leaves our shop, and I am not sure if we even have any responsibility for it once it has gone. On the other hand if you have chosen to become a Master of your craft, you study wood and know it's characteristics, a hobbist, designer or artist does not have these constraints. And I think this is something we all struggle with, I know I do.

[thewoodwhisperer]

I don't think anyone will disagree with you on maple being the best choice for a cutting board, and coarse-grained exotics being the worst choice. But in your original post I believe you were making a blanket statement about end-grain boards in general, which is where I disagreed with you. I agree 100% that maple is the absolute best choice for cutting boards. I also believe that many woods exhibit similar properties to maple and are also acceptable for cutting board use. Why don't we see them used all that often? Because they are more expensive. And if maple does the job, why go with something that is pricier? That being said, if you look hard enough you will see that many cutting board manufacturers will indeed use walnut and other woods in their cutting boards. Here's an example from a very popular chopping block manufacturer: http://www.amazon.com/John-Boos-Round-Walnut-Chopping/dp/B0018XXG7M And if you happen to watch the Food Network, you'll see plenty of chefs using end grain cutting boards that are made with woods that clearly are not maple.

As for the finish, you definitely aren't the first person to disagree with my finishing method, . But frankly I think there's room enough in this world for multiple opinions on that topic. I use what works for me, and I expect others to use what works for them.

And you asked if anyone really goes through the rigors of sanitizing their cutting boards. Well, my answer to that is only if they want a safe and sanitary surface to work off of. I consider cleaning my cutting board as part of the responsibility of owning one. And anyone who I've made a cutting board for gets a short instruction sheet explaining how to clean and maintain the board.

[dryhter]

I don't think anyone will disagree with you on maple being the best choice for a cutting board, and coarse-grained exotics being the worst choice. But in your original post I believe you were making a blanket statement about end-grain boards in general, which is where I disagreed with you. I agree 100% that maple is the absolute best choice for cutting boards. I also believe that many woods exhibit similar properties to maple and are also acceptable for cutting board use. Why don't we see them used all that often? Because they are more expensive. And if maple does the job, why go with something that is pricier? That being said, if you look hard enough you will see that many cutting board manufacturers will indeed use walnut and other woods in their cutting boards. Here's an example from a very popular chopping block manufacturer: http://www.amazon.co...g/dp/B0018XXG7M And if you happen to watch the Food Network, you'll see plenty of chefs using end grain cutting boards that are made with woods that clearly are not maple.

As for the finish, you definitely aren't the first person to disagree with my finishing method, . But frankly I think there's room enough in this world for multiple opinions on that topic. I use what works for me, and I expect others to use what works for them.

And you asked if anyone really goes through the rigors of sanitizing their cutting boards. Well, my answer to that is only if they want a safe and sanitary surface to work off of. I consider cleaning my cutting board as part of the responsibility of owning one. And anyone who I've made a cutting board for gets a short instruction sheet explaining how to clean and maintain the board.

Marc,

So I am driving to the job site this morning after replying to your and Beechwood Chip's post thinking to myself "What the hell are you doing getting into a discussion with Marc about some stupid cutting board?", and I am laughing to myself, thinking, " You have nothing better to do!" Anyways it is a pleasure to speak with you, even if it is over the www.. After thinking about it at work this is what I came up with,

• I really like working with wood and if I hadn't been a carpenter for the last thirty years woodworking would have definitely been a passionate hobby. There is just something about wood an inner strength and beauty, just hard to explain, I guess.
• More of a traditional woodworker than contemporary. If it ain't broke why fix it common sense approach to woodworking. If you are building a heirloom armoire there is a reason to use dovetailed drawers, but for some plywood file drawers for some office furniture half lap joints will work just fine.
• Still a student, love learning about wood and its' characteristics and properties and why certain woods were used for specific tasks because of these properties, When and why certain joinery is used. All wood is not the same.
• Wood is an artistic medium that can stand by it's own natural beauty and you can build almost anything you want out of it.
• I have made mistakes and maybe I can help somebody not make those mistakes

But maybe the strongest reason is that new woodworkers come to this site wanting to learn. To learn the "Best" way or the "Correct" way or the "How the pro's do it" way, it is like a speed course in woodworking. They are wanting to take a forth year class at college freshmen year, and that is fine, sometimes you get your butt in a wringer and all you want to do is get it out.

The original poster Yeti, is new to wood working and wanted to know about changing the details of a cutting board he saw on a podcast. The changes he wanted to make had merit, but probably not the best way to go about it to get the results he wanted. He also asked' Are there any other concerns I should be aware of?' The intent of my reply was to select a less ambitious project using the "best" wood available. Perhaps after he has a few cutting boards under his belt he can take on a more complicated project.

So Marc, I learned that we both agree that hard maple is the "Best " wood for a cutting board, http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/faculty/docliver/Research/cuttingboard.htm

Species of wood does not matter significantly as does edge grain vs. end grain as long as the guidelines of close grain is adhered to. The most relevant thing I learned is the point you made regarding sanitizing and cross- contaminating that I found HERE .

Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

[PaulMarcel]

I just go out to eat...

[Beechwood Chip]

After all that, I just bought a set of color coded plastic cutting boards. I'll still do bread, cheese, vegies and cooked on the wood cutting boards, but raw meat gets cut on the plastic ones and then they go straight into the dishwasher. I know I'm lazy about cleaning, and this way I know I'll be safe.

Have a safe and happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

[thewoodwhisperer]

Nice "meeting" you too dryhter. And you are right, if we don't debate cutting boards, what else are we going to do with our ample spare time? lol. Either way, I see your point concerning basic cutting boards. When I used to take on students in my shop, many times, the first project was a simple cutting board. But that being said, I here from MANY folks who make this end grain version as their first board and they do rather well. But of course, not everyone will be able to tackle it right away. Thanks for the additional info you found. And Happy Thanksgiving to you too.

[DeanJackson]

We talk about endgrain cutting boards and reference them to Butcher's Chopping blocks ( you know those big heavy tables ) , Well I have never seen a Oak or Black Walnut or some other wood other than Hard Maple or Beech and I figure there must be a reason for that. I think that let's say in the last two hundred years or so that if a better wood or other wood could/should be used then you would see those chopping blocks around today, but you don't. Both of these woods have very tight endgrain and possibly/probably other qualities that make them the best choice for the intended purpose.

Most television chefs use walnut, if you watch the food network. Most pro chefs seem to use maple. Most chefs cutting meats seem to use plastic, that I've seen, although I could be quite wrong on that one.