Pwk5017 Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Finished gluing up this big walnut end grain island last night, and I noticed I induced a bow into the piece during the glueup. I was pressed for time to get all 36 pieces glued and aligned, and I dont think my makeshift bessey extender clamps were doing me any favors. I typically glue up end grain islands using my jorgenson ibeams, but this counter is 68" long, and my longest ibeams are 60-62". Bummer. Anyways, it is what it is. I have a 2.25" thick blank that needs to be delivered at 2" thick, so we have some play here. I noticed it wasnt sitting super flush with my bench top that is mostly flat. I quickly grabbed a crap piece of maple to joint, and sure enough the whole piece has a 1/8" bow in it. Now, im not incredibly concerned about getting it dead nuts flat along the length, but I would like to see that bow reduced to around 1/16". I will be flattening with my drum sander as usual. What is the best course of action here? Do I just feed it through the machine normally and expect some level of flattening to occur over the length? Do I devise some means of taping shims to one face of the piece? Lastly, would you attempt to flatten one face using a ROS and then feed it through the drum sander to flatten the other face and clean up the original face? This option would be painful with my 150/5 and 60 grit, and might result in me ordering a rotex 150/bosch 6" dual sander through prime. I guess thinking through it as I type this, I have some 8/4 white oak laying around that I could joint and plane to uniform size to make a rough sled. What would the general collective do? Am I overreacting about 1/8" over 68"? I expect the contractor will have to shim it somewhat during installation no matter how flat I make the piece, but I dont want the curvature to be noticeable to the human eye, or detrimental to the piece. With the good side facing up, it is shaped like a smile if that changes anything. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D. Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 I'm not an expert and haven't done it before, but it looks like a picture perfect candidate for using a router sled. http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/flattening-workbenches-and-wide-boards-with-a-router/?as=router%20sled&mode=posts&ap=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Neil D, that is end grain, not the best plan of action to put that through a planer. Do you have a low angle jack? I would use that straighten it out then drum sand it. Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk Edit. Sorry Neil D i mis read, thought you wrote planer sled. My bad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Depending on the size of. Your drum sander and the size of the top you could tape some long ripped shims to the bottom to hold the top equal and then take light passes with coarse grit paper to work out the curve in the top. A level infeed and outfeed table connected into a "U " shape will make the repeated passes much easier . 2 men on the sander to prevent it from stalling and sanding a big divot In your top. It's not easy, it is time consuming, be careful ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwk5017 Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Well, F me. The most obvious answer was staring me in the face, and it took Neil D to point it out. I loathe jig building, but I think you are right. The router sled is probably the way to go here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbj Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Personally I'd shim it, find your lowest spot that you're matching and take really light passes with a router sled. With the end grain, I'd still be a little concerned with chip out hence the light passes. Your 150/5 should clean it up ok from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D. Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 NP shaneymack. But if OP has a planer that would fit that slab I'd love to see a picture! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 When I build a sled for a twisted or cupped board I use playing cards as shims and tape the stack down to keep them in place. Router jig to basically flatten it the drum sand to improve the surface and use the 150 to sand out the lines from the drum sander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwk5017 Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 23 minutes ago, wdwerker said: When I build a sled for a twisted or cupped board I use playing cards as shims and tape the stack down to keep them in place. Router jig to basically flatten it the drum sand to improve the surface and use the 150 to sand out the lines from the drum sander. Yep, I use old business cards from when I thought it would be a good idea to be a realtor while having a full time job at a demanding fortune 500 company.... Typically, I think a router sled leaves you with a crap surface to finish up, but if I sled the bottom pretty flat, then i can run it through the sander at 80 or 120 grit and call it a day. I typically dont worry about the bottom of pieces too much. And I dont have two men, just a man and a fiance who begrudgingly helps at times. I might take this one to 220 on the drum sander though. It will save me a bit of time sanding end grain, and I find you can push walnut a lot harder through the sander than say cherry/maple/hickory/white oak. I dont even bother taking those other woods passed 120, because of burning. I know hardness has to do with a lot of that, but I dont know if ive ever noticed burning streaks on walnut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncfowler Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 I guess the moral of the story is saving time ends up taking more time? I can't give you any suggestions since I never ran into your problem, What I can suggest is call around to other larger companies who may have large flat bed drum sander and see how much they would charge to make a few passes, to flatten out the top and the bottom if needed, When in doubt best to play it safe, since this is a one of a kind top and amount of labor and materials involved, a major screw up at this point could be devastating, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwk5017 Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 42 minutes ago, Neil D. said: NP shaneymack. But if OP has a planer that would fit that slab I'd love to see a picture! How do you know I dont have this bad boy tucked away in my basement? https://akroncanton.craigslist.org/tls/5364697156.html It would leave me with 1/4-1/2" to spare! Assuming it didn't blow up 8 hours of work and $225 worth of walnut in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Just clean the paper between passes if you notice any resin building up. On a,top like this one I would sand the overhanging bottom edge and leave the rest fairly coarse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbj Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 5 minutes ago, Pwk5017 said: Yep, I use old business cards from when I thought it would be a good idea to be a realtor while having a full time job at a demanding fortune 500 company.... Typically, I think a router sled leaves you with a crap surface to finish up, but if I sled the bottom pretty flat, then i can run it through the sander at 80 or 120 grit and call it a day. I typically dont worry about the bottom of pieces too much. And I dont have two men, just a man and a fiance who begrudgingly helps at times. I might take this one to 220 on the drum sander though. It will save me a bit of time sanding end grain, and I find you can push walnut a lot harder through the sander than say cherry/maple/hickory/white oak. I dont even bother taking those other woods passed 120, because of burning. I know hardness has to do with a lot of that, but I dont know if ive ever noticed burning streaks on walnut. I've found that Router sled leaves a rough finish but my Rotex 150 quickly gets it in shape. But all comes down to tools on hand and preferred method. As we all know, with most projects there are a lot of ways to get to a nice end result. I do wish i had a drum sander..... Wouldn't be surprised if one of those shows up one of these days... just so handy to have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwk5017 Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, ncfowler said: I guess the moral of the story is saving time ends up taking more time? I can't give you any suggestions since I never ran into your problem, What I can suggest is call around to other larger companies who may have large flat bed drum sander and see how much they would charge to make a few passes, to flatten out the top and the bottom if needed, When in doubt best to play it safe, since this is a one of a kind top and amount of labor and materials involved, a major screw up at this point could be devastating, I think no matter how you look at it, this was going to be a time consuming endeavor, and I charged accordingly. I do decent size end grain tops pretty regularly for restaurants here in town. Difference between 3' and 5.5' is pretty considerable though. a 2' by 3' end grain board/island/whatever is manageable for one dude to do. Plus, the ibeam clamps I mentioned make things pretty simple to glue up within 1/16" flat over 36". Supermax 37x2 drum sander does the rest from there. However, with something this big--well, lets just say it's a mad dash to get glue spread, pieces aligned, and clamps in place within the open window for titebond III. You dont have the luxury of a 5 minute check up to correct mild alignment issues. At the end of it, I would consider 1/8" bow to be mild. Im going to burn an hour or two to flatten one side, and then be back on track. Very very correct statement, a major screw up at this point would be mildly suicidal. This project has to be delivered to the contractor on the 15th, no pressure, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D. Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 42 minutes ago, Pwk5017 said: How do you know I dont have this bad boy tucked away in my basement? https://akroncanton.craigslist.org/tls/5364697156.html It would leave me with 1/4-1/2" to spare! Assuming it didn't blow up 8 hours of work and $225 worth of walnut in the process. That's one big honking machine! And if you do have it in your basement, I hope you have a walkout. I wouldn't want to try getting that thing down the steps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 If you haven't gone to cutting yet, I'd say wait. Lay out a 1"x1 every few inches in a platform that is perfectly flat and let the top lay out for a bit. I did a 37" end grain counter and it would literally sink in the middle over night if there wasn't enough support. You may find gravity will flatten it back out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Drying for a few days will equalize the moisture content which could help too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwk5017 Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 18 hours ago, Brendon_t said: If you haven't gone to cutting yet, I'd say wait. Lay out a 1"x1 every few inches in a platform that is perfectly flat and let the top lay out for a bit. I did a 37" end grain counter and it would literally sink in the middle over night if there wasn't enough support. You may find gravity will flatten it back out I read this last night as I got into bed, and I actually got out of bed to go downstairs and sticker the whole piece. We will see if it did anything, but im not too hopeful. How thick was your board that it wet noodled on you? Im not even concerned about sag on this piece, I am afraid the contractor wont ensure it's sitting well on the base cabinets, and then go hog wild with his impact driver and some screws resulting in something breaking--the end grain island or the cabinets. If it would conform to whatever it sits on then, I would be drum sanding this thing and washing my hands of it. I plan to throw together a quick router sled tonight to clean 1/16-3/32 off the bottom of the piece. Drum sander and TS75 to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 I believe finished thickness was 1.5" Let's hope it works out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Pwk5017 said: I am afraid the contractor wont ensure it's sitting well on the base cabinets, and then go hog wild with his impact driver and some screws resulting in something breaking--the end grain island or the cabinets. This should be a concern whether it is perfectly flat or not. You should be talking to him ahead of time about how to attach it safely, otherwise the customer might think you made them a faulty counter when it cracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Yeah, definitely talk to the contractor about attaching it properly. If he tried to just dump a few screws into it with an impact, he very well may blow it out anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwk5017 Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 It's the fear that keeps me up at night after completing a project. Anyone that buys from me gets an earful about installation and wood movement. I usually let them broach the subject when they ask, "so uh, you usually just liquid nails this to the cabinets, right?". I then pause to have an internal "how do I reach these keeds?" moment, and go into my speech. I am waiting for the day someone royally effs up and then attempts to blame it on me. It appears my stern talks or luck has kept me out of that situation thus far. I refuse to install myself, because I dont have liability insurance. I dont plan on getting it anytime soon either. Plenty of people in the world that can do the install. Well, I got home from the office today ready to tackle the router sled when I came to the very quick realization that the 30" island is wider than my 28" bench. Balls. I thought about making rails to lay perpendicular to the bench, and then the router sled rails on top of those rails, but that seemed inaccurate and unstable. Sent it through the drum sander half a dozen times, and it is close. It is right around 1/16" bow in the middle. I shimmed it a bit as it was fed into the machine. I finished up on 50/60 grit, and it will be on to 80/120 grit tomorrow. I am trying to think if I want to do some small adjustments prior to tomorrow's sanding session, or if it's time to call it good nuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 What is the length? If that 1/16" is across the length, I'd be patting me on the back. It will definitely settle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwk5017 Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 68" long. I didn't commend myself just yet, but I will when I shake hands with the customer and get the other half of my money. Then, it will be time to go shopping for some shop upgrades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.