Chopcat Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Ok so time to bare all and spill the beans on the cock-ups you make as you go through the build. And hopefully the ways you get round them. I shall start, with probably not the first of mine. I got to the glue up stage with dog strip and on checking the squareness of the end of the dog strip, nearest to the vice end, (yes after it was glued) found that it was not. Square that is. Problem stems from the chop saw being slightly out, That hadn't mattered until this point. So to get over it I set up some blocks on either side of the top and used a fence to rout the end of the dog strip square again. Now who else has something to tell us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevmc Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I came very close to having the same problem with a very accurate 2 degree end because I forgot to reset my miter saw after making the dogstrip jig. Luckily I caught it before the glue up My cockup right now is when I was routing out the initial dovetail in the end block I went outside the marking line on one side a bit On the initial pass. I am going to adjust the next few passes to make the guide for the template bit right and will see how it looks after I finish and test fit the joint. I may be posting again as to how to fix the gap, otherwise I will be remaking the end block again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopcat Posted February 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 oh and before someone asks...... th phrase cock-up Oddly, in British English it is not these days a vulgarism, or at least only a very mild one. It comes from one of several senses of cock, to bend at an angle, as in — for example — cocking a gun or turning up the brim of one’s headgear (so producing an old-time naval officer’s cocked hat). The use of cock-up to mean a blunder or error was originally British military slang dating from the 1920s. The slang sense of cock clearly had a lot to do with its adoption, but this hasn’t stopped it being used in respectable publications, and modern British dictionaries mark it merely as informal or colloquial. so there! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allencrane Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Two related ones here...to illustrate that one blunder can lead to another: When I bought my wood, I did not buy widths quite large enough (and perhaps I was too cheap to over-buy) to account for the extra width needed for milling down to final size. (Once I finally flattened the top I'm at 3 5/8"). So in the process of routing the cavity for the tail vise, I did not account properly for the thickness of my slab, and so the little "overhang" section of the cavity is thinner than the 1 15/16" that is called for (I'm about 1/4" thinner than spec). I have not received the vise yet (it's on order). I'm not so concerned about the thickness of the slab (benchcrafted actually has a vise template for a 3" bench). However, even the 3" bench template has the thickness of the cavity overhang at 1 15/16. I'm waiting to get the vise hardware to see if this actually makes a difference. I could still create a shim to fill up the void, but we'll see...stay tuned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevmc Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 My cockup right now is when I was routing out the initial dovetail in the end block I went outside the marking line on one side a bit On the initial pass. I am going to adjust the next few passes to make the guide for the template bit right and will see how it looks after I finish and test fit the joint. I may be posting again as to how to fix the gap, otherwise I will be remaking the end block again Here is an update. It's even a bigger screwup. I Glued up a new end block and cut a new mortise. It was a sweet fit. I then proceeded to drill the big through hole for the screw vice in the place where the bolts go. So I glued up a third end block, made another mortise then drilled the holed only to discover I aligned the template up with the wrong line on the template! So now I have a fourth glue up cooking. In the clamps. I will say this- I am getting very good at using my router to make accurate mortises Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMarshall Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Two related ones here...to illustrate that one blunder can lead to another: When I bought my wood, I did not buy widths quite large enough (and perhaps I was too cheap to over-buy) to account for the extra width needed for milling down to final size. (Once I finally flattened the top I'm at 3 5/8"). So in the process of routing the cavity for the tail vise, I did not account properly for the thickness of my slab, and so the little "overhang" section of the cavity is thinner than the 1 15/16" that is called for (I'm about 1/4" thinner than spec). I have not received the vise yet (it's on order). I'm not so concerned about the thickness of the slab (benchcrafted actually has a vise template for a 3" bench). However, even the 3" bench template has the thickness of the cavity overhang at 1 15/16. I'm waiting to get the vise hardware to see if this actually makes a difference. I could still create a shim to fill up the void, but we'll see...stay tuned. You should be fine with a top that is less than 1 15/16" thick. You just have more clearance for the screw. Really, the 1 15/16" is a "not to exceed" number so that the nut block has enough clearance. With a 3 5/8" thick top, just make sure to shim the two side rails. Don't be tempted to move the whole assembly up and make a shorter sliding dog block. All of that would work fine, but it's really the diameter of the handwheel on the vise that controls everything else. If you don't have the tail vise low enough, the handwheel could stick up above the level of the top surface and you'll be forever hitting it with your planes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konkers Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 One of mine so far: When drilling out the mortise to receive the nut for the endcap bolt, I drilled on the edge of the bolt's profile instead of in its center. A second hole and some drilling gave the nut enough room. Added bonus: much easier to get my finger in that mortise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allencrane Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 A near miss...When gluing up the front laminate piece, I applied glue to the entire length (somehow forgetting there is a 14" void due to the vise cavity that took me an entire afternoon to create 'cause I'm slow...). After about 30 minutes of glue up, I went out to scrape and wipe off the fresh squeeze-out, when I noticed that the entire inner face (facing the vise cavity) of the front laminate was covered in glue and setting up nicely...so I gave it a nice warm water rub down and no more glue. Whew! I really would have hated trying to sand/scrape/plane that inner face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 What a great idea for a thread.. A+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopcat Posted March 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 told you there would be another one. top tip. when aligning the nuts in the removable hardware in the leg rails drill the bolt hole first, put the bolt in and align the position you need to drill the hole for the nut. it is surprising how far off the hole can wander as you need to drill it free hand for a good portion. that lesson I learned after hole number one. which to get over the fact that the two holed didn't align means I have a slightly bigger hole for the nut. you're always learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cross Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 In cutting the front slab to length I bisected two of the alignment dowels used during glue-up of the laminations. I didn't think to measure where they would go and put them in exactly the wrong place. So we either need shorten the length of the bench-top or have a pair googly eyes permanently at the end of the bench. Tom Cross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Crawford Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Route a dado across the end and put in a dark wood strip. Then you have the accent strip you planned from the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexPeel Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Thats an interesting idea but wouldn't you have problems with wood movement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Route a dado across the end. Now you have a convenient pencil holder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Crawford Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Yes, Alex is correct. I did not think it through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Lyde Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Well I have slab A all milled and glued together, I planed each board to the same thickness so the proper thickness of slab A turned out correct. But now as I look down the face of the slab from end to end it has a bow in it. I will now need to run it thru the jointer to flatten that front face. One problem........in doing all this work I discovered my new jointer has a twist in the fence, a bad twist, so everything was coming out not square, I first thought it was just my technique but alas its the machine. On the good side Powermatic is sending me a new fence promptly but I'm at a standstill until it arrives. Edit: New fence arrived about 30 minutes after this post. It is installed now and all is right in the world again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Lyde Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Well I just screwed up the two short stretchers on the left legs. I was drilling for the draw bore pegs and drilled the 1/16" in the wrong direction!!!!!! I guess I will make new stretchers in the morning. :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFPtrader Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Ouchh!!! I feel the pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allencrane Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Is it possible to plug the holes, sand flush, and redrill? You are off 1/16" the wrong way, which makes the center of the hole 1/8" off from where you need to be. In other words, by redrilling the hole where it should be, you would have 1/4" (or 2/3) of the former 3/8" hole (now a plug) remaining as reinforcement. Mechanically, the compression is going to be going toward the inside of the mortise anyway, which means the drawbore will be pressing against the plug, not pulling away from it. By gluing a plug and then redrilling, I would venture that you are not losing any measurable strength in the joint. Especially since the mortise will ensure that the plug has nowhere to go sideways (and no one will see it anyway). I'm saying this only because I was down to my last pieces of stock when I was doing the stretchers, but if you have enough extra material, I'd say go for a redo "to make as perfectly as possible". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdusty Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Sorry to say this is a technique I often resort to. Plug and play works great, give it a try before making new stretchers, may save you lots of time (and wood). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Lyde Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Thanks for the advice guys but I had plenty of wood and it was just two of the short stretchers so it wasn't too time consuming to just make new pieces. Today I had another confrontation with the knock down hardware. The holes drilled are 1/2" for the long bolts, well they were off just a little with the barrel nuts so I had to drill out those long holes to 5/8" to give myself a little wiggle room, it all went together well after that. Now I'm headed out to the garage to make the mortises in the bottom of the tops for the leg assembly, lets hope this goes smoothly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFPtrader Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 This Forum Topic is a dangerous one to follow. Read it at your own risk, it's contagious. Today I went to drill the holes in the leg chop for the parallel guide and realized I screwed up the layout. Naturally, I realized it after the first hole was drilled. Looking at the Leg Vise Chop tab in SketchUp, my eyes were focused on the dimensions of the hole elevations. No problem there, but stupid me laid out the holes on the center of the chop instead of a 5/8" offset from the back of the chop. That dimension is on the Parallel Guide tab in SketchUp, the tab I didn't look at, duh! Well, after thinking about a patch up, I figured what the heck. I'll just drill two more holes in the right spot and everyone will think I have an extra strong mortise & tenon joint. I won't tell if you don't, lol. As for this topic, I'm not reading it anymore. It's like catching the plague and I'm to far down the road to screw up now, lol. As soon as I get the dowel plate tomorrow, I'll make some walnut dowels and finish up installing the BenchCrafted hardware. Then all the pieces start coming together. I'm getting that warm and fuzzy feeling, can't wait. PS: I couldn't find my dunce hat, so I'll have to make up "Dunce time" when I do find it. Extra strong mortise & tenon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevmc Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 I got you beat and have an even stronger pegged mortise and tenon I drilled on of the holes too close to the end of the mortise and the hole was going to end up too close to the side of the tenon. So I decided to drill a new peg hole from the other side. To make it look symmetric I drilled a fake peg hole. It was supposed to look like the dowels went all the through the entire chop. However the second set of holes were drilled on wrong side of the block so I ended up with six dowel holes in The chop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Lyde Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Kevmc it looks good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFPtrader Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Wow, extra firm. Is that something you learned in stitchery class?, lol. Couldn't resist that, had to break'em a little bit, lol. But that was a good idea, I like it. Make the best of the worse, I say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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