Eric. Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 So I guess I'm about a week or two out from pulling the trigger...finally. I've been debating with myself for almost a year now and it's time. Boiled down to these two units. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001U0O56O/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller= -OR- http://www.amazon.com/649005K-22-Inch-4-Horsepower-115-Volt-1-Phase/dp/B00020BNB8/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1394728131&sr=8-9&keywords=jet+22-44+drum+sander Clearly one is far more badass than the other...and an extra 800 beans. Most of the upgrades on the Pro I'm not that interested in. The two big things for me are the (significant) extra HP, and the truss-like structure on the head. I've heard about some issues with sagging on the Plus units...something I do NOT want to deal with. From what I understand, these units can be a real PITA to keep calibrated, and it would be a nightmare if I had to constantly fiddle with parallelism. The cast iron handle, digital readout, and other little upgrades...meh, cool but not necessary for me. Believe it or not, I've never had an opportunity to actually lay hands on either of these units, and trying to find out their ACTUAL size has proven nearly impossible...I find different numbers on almost every website I see them. It appears that the two are similar in width, and if I add the extension tables to the Plus, they will be similar if not identical in depth. I have limited floor space remaining and both of these have giant footprints. Perhaps they're so close that it's not really even a consideration. I did read that the casters on the Plus cabinet are not 360* multi-directional, so that kind of sucks. Where I intend to put this thing, I believe I should be able to use it 90% of the time without moving it, but I will have to pull it out for longer/wider pieces. I know there aren't a ton of you guys who own either of these, but if anyone does, or you have done research on them, I'd love to hear your experiences/opinions. I have to admit I'm leaning toward the big boy...it's my nature to overbuy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Eric - you obviously decided to go big.... if you have the means then why not? just curious if you looked into the sub-$1000 machines? is this one of those areas where you need to spend some dough to make it worth it? i'd like to add a drum sander at some point, but my next big machine will be a 20" planer or bad ass band saw..... just wondering if it makes sense to sneak in a small drum sander in the mean time or is that just wasting time and $. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I've just heard too many times about the inadequacies of the Jet 16/32...mostly that it's vastly underpowered. I want an open-ended sander so my options are limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 SuperMax is the original company that made the 16/32 I have under the Peformax label. They sold out to Jet but stayed in the business of building bigger machines for commercial shops. They came out with a 19/38 open side sander that is very ridgid and made in the USA . Runs on 120 v and has some nice features. I played with one at the last IWF big wood show. I am considering either it or the 22/44 osselating Jet. One of the guys on the Forum has one and I was supposed to call him and chat about it, then I got too busy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Forgive my ignorance, but what do the numbers stand for? I notice the second number is always double the first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Oooh! Oooh! I know this one! The first number is the maximum width piece you can sand in one pass. Since it is open sided, you can run a wider piece through in two passes, and the second number is the max width for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 It's an open-ended unit, so 22/44 means the width capacity is 22" in one pass, turn the (wide) panel, door, table top, etc end for end then do the other side, giving it a 44" capacity. Steve, do you have a link to that SuperMax 19/38? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerrySats Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Franklin , 16/32 -22 /44 the first number is the actually width of the opening 16" and 22" the second is the board width it can do . 32" and 44" wide overall . I have a 16/32 personally I would pass on the open drum sander in the future . It's too finicky to get a 32" wide board perfect . I have the older Peformax machine , maybe the newer models are better . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Jerry, I want a large capacity machine and I don't have the space (or bankroll) to get a huge closed machine. From what I hear, the trussed head on the Pro pretty much eliminates the sag and the problems people have with the other open-ended models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Maybe Marc will chime in. Doesn't he own the 22-44 pro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerrySats Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Eric thats good to know , the first machine you posted looks like it would cure the problem I see with my machine . I'd be interested to see the SuperMax design . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Oooh! Oooh! I know this one! The first number is the maximum width piece you can sand in one pass. Since it is open sided, you can run a wider piece through in two passes, and the second number is the max width for that. I wonder why the manufacturers feel it necessary to tell us the "double width". Wh woodworkers are pretty good at math! Probabably a marketing ploy, as I guess the "non" open ended models do not have the option of flipping the board around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Ive owned both along with the little version. I would not buy any of them again. If I were looking at a budget machine I get the 26" wood master for just a little more. Open end drum sanders are sort of a gimmick, open ends are fine on a wide belt but dont perform on drum sanders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Ive owned both along with the little version. I would not buy any of them again. If I were looking at a budget machine I get the 26" wood master for just a little more. Open end drum sanders are sort of a gimmick, open ends are fine on a wide belt but dont perform on drum sanders. in case anyone like me wanted to look up that machine, here it is. http://www.woodmasterdrumsanders.com/NS/accessdetail.cfm?PID=2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Just google SuperMax 19/38 It has a ridgid cast iron frame for the drum. And there is a lever that barely tilts the feed belt for when you are running panels double width. They made extra room inside the frame for your fingers to wrap the sandpaper. The feed belt is a few inches wider than the drum to support wider panels. To anyone considering a drum sander ,GET the INFEED and OUTFEED tables ! They are neccsacarry for decent results. I heard that the 22/44 osselateing by Jet uses a 3 1/4 sand roll which is not common. I want to know if the osselating really does prevent burns. I have the Jet osselating edge sander and with finer grits it does load up the abrasive enough to require cleaning by using a crepe rubber block. The biggest trick to a drum sander is patience, on the first pass start an 1/8 higher than the board and creep down until it barely contacts the wood. Finish that pass and spin it around & send it through again. The harder the wood and the finer the abrasive the smaller the amount you take off on each pass. 1/4 turn is 1/64 on my machine. That is the most I lower the head with 150 grit on walnut or mahogany. Maple or cherry get 1/8 th of a turn, and I keep an eye on the resin build up on the abrasive & clean it often. I ran all the mahogany for my staircase project on all 4 sides for the posts and 2 sides for the wider stock, so every piece is within 1/128th . That kind of smooth flat glue ready surface really does make accurate work so much easier. If a board is rough then use a coarser abrasive until it is 90 percent flattened, switch to a medium grit to take out the coarse scratches, then 150 to get it smooth. If you want to use finer grits have the boards already flat and just use those passes to improve the appearance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 The big thing with these sorts of sanders is they dont have roll tensioners on the drums which is why you have to baby them through the process like Steve stated along with lack of HP. When they load you get paper bunching which causes crap build up on the paper and burning. The velcro drums are better but not a complete cure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Another consideration is dust extraction. I have a dedicated dust collector sucking on my sander. This is important, if your not clearing the dust, your paper will clog easier, thus causing burns. Perhaps get the lesser unit and roll the cash over to a smaller garbage type can dust collector? -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 I have the 22-44 Plus, on a shop-built cart, and it's made me happy for 6-7 years. I almost NEVER use the infeed / outfeed tables, they're a PITA. Remember, I'm a one-man shop, a serious hobbyist, not a production shop. I use it on every project, as I have a straight knived planer which enjoys making meals of most highly figured woods. In fact, I successfully surfaced some very chippy QSWO this morning. I'll often finish planing ~ 1/16" fat, then sand 80-120-150 to final thickess. I can change the roll in 2-3 minutes, without tools. I swap the boards, or groups of boards if I'm doing edges, end to end with each pass, which seems to cancel any minor parallel issues. I think it's important to keep "bite size" in perspective on these things, they aren't planers, and they aren't minivan-sized production machines. If you take reasonable passes, which will vary by grit, the machine works GREAT. I've used 20 grit to 220 grit papers, and even crosshatched some cedar with 36 grit for decorative frames. If you try to take a deep pass, you risk lifting the open end, screwing up the parallelism, or getting the board stuck and burning or digging a divot. I've found that lighter passes at high belt speeds work best for me, and have sanded everything from 42" wide table tops to 3/4" wide face frame parts on edge (ganged), to 1/16" thick box divider / liner stock. If you're looking to run doors though it all day long in a production shop, look elsewhere. If you understand these things and can take a little more time for extra passes, they can be very handy tools. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 In-feed out-feed tables do come in handy sanding longer boards. I like mine and glad to have them. Plus they come in handy to stack shit on. -Ace- 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Thanks for all the input peoples. I have no intention of thicknessing with this unit...I have a planer and the sander will be primarily for removing mill marks post-planer and cleaning up shop-sawn veneers. Don, the 5HP on the unit you linked has me drooling a bit, but I really want more capacity than 26". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Thanks for all the input peoples. I have no intention of thicknessing with this unit...I have a planer and the sander will be primarily for removing mill marks post-planer and cleaning up shop-sawn veneers. Don, the 5HP on the unit you linked has me drooling a bit, but I really want more capacity than 26". Your not really getting the capacity anyways. The little motor on the jet is no where near what a good sander needs. The three HP on the pro is better but not great. These thing get good reviews from folks that dont know what a good drum sander should do. Sorry I dont mean to be blunt but Ive owned them and know what a real one should do and these are just not even close. Even the 5hp wood master is not even close to the best but is far superior to either of the above. Folks want to claim they dont do production stuff so they dont need. The reality is NO drum sander is really good at production stuff this is why we have wide belt sanders. I have the PM double drum and it totally smokes these little sander but that being said its not all that great. You can buy those jet 22-44s surplus most any day for a grand because so many of them get returned. My last one was the lager oscillating version and it was better than the non oscillating but I feel the same way about those as I did my boat, I wasn't sad to see it go away. That said they do beat the delta hands down with no effort. I dont think you will find one that self tensions the paper rolls in your price range but it makes a huge difference. If someone offered me one of the two above I take the pro version any day over the other. I guess as long as you never get to see how a good sander works then you probably wont be disappointed. Basically you need about 5hp for ever 20" of sander to get a good cut this doesn't mean heavy cut it means a clean cut without slowing the drum. The open end is more of a gimmick. If you sand for example a table top in two halves then do your final glue up with a joint you will end up with a flatter top than trying to flip the piece and run it with the over hang. A 25" sander will easily do a 50" table top with little work to clean off that last joint. Drum sander dont leave truly finish ready surfaces anyways so it no skin off your ass to clean off one joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 A 25" sander will easily do a 50" table top with little work to clean off that last joint. Drum sander dont leave truly finish ready surfaces anyways so it no skin off your ass to clean off one joint. You make a really good point there, dammit. I intend to go straight from the planer to the sander anyway. You're not making this easier for me. Lemme look at that Wood Master again. You have experience with that unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 You make a really good point there, dammit. I intend to go straight from the planer to the sander anyway. You're not making this easier for me. Lemme look at that Wood Master again. You have experience with that unit? Yes its the one I had before the PM that burned up in my shop fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Alright, real quick tell me why I shouldn't get the Grizzly instead...24", 5HP, dual drum. $2,000. It is f^#&*@! huge though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Dont be a wuss, just drop 10 grand on a wide belt sander! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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