jpf1182 Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I am finishing a mahogany project and investigating the best finish to apply. So far it looks like an aniline dye, shellac, tinted wood filler then varnish or lacquer. Is there a difference between aniline dyes and Transtint? It seems to me like there is and I don't know if one is better than the other. Also, I am thinking about a red dye (merlot or red mahogany) and a brown pore filler. Any suggestions on colors to use for both the dye and filler? My understanding is that the dye and filler will really give the wood a rich, bold color without blocking out the grain. Thanks for any help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 ==>aniline dye, shellac, tinted wood filler then varnish or lacquer Reading Flexner, are we? Jokes aside, you've posted the 'traditional' Mahogany schedule listed in every finishing book published prior to '00... There's nothing wrong with it, but it dates your source material... First: What species of Mahogany? The schedule you posted is for Honduran and/or Cuban Mahogany - two closely related species that are the real deal. Colloquially, the American Mahoganies. These species are now termed 'Genuine Mahogany' and go for about $10/bf. Cuban is the Holy Grail of Mahogany, very hard to get and way more expensive. Genuine Mahogany is now sourced from Central and South America. There is a further subtly -- the wood harvested in South America is not really 'Honduran' Mahogany -- but a closely-related species. While called Honduran for Marketing reasons, this lumber has slightly larger pores and a little more ribbon. It also ages to more of a brown, not the red/brown of real Honduran or the almost brown/black of Cuban. I've got 60-year old sticks of Cuban, 25-year old sticks of real Honduran and 10-year old sticks of South American-sourced 'Honduran'. You can tell which is which from 10-feet away... Real Honduran from Central America is about $14/bf. Real Cuban is very expensive, comes from a single source and goes to luthiers and/or Steinway. Note: Most 'Mahogany' sold today is not 'Genuine Mahogany'. If properly labeled, you'll see the terms 'African', 'Pacific', 'Island' or maybe Sapele, etc. They are sourced from Africa and/or the Pacific Rim and are not genetically related to Genuine Mahogany -- and certainly not close to the so-called American Mahogany. These are priced around $6/bf -- give or take. They also accept color/finishes quite differently. You can not successfully use the schedule you posted with African/Asian-sourced materials. African/Asian-sourced Mahogany tends to blotch badly with dyes, have larger pores that are harder to fill and ribbon figure that presents it's own problems... There are schedules using GF dyes that work well on African/Asian Mahogany. I can send you a bunch... One important note: there are some species being sold as genuine Mahogany that are not the real deal -- they are a closely-related species plantation harvested in the pacific islands (think Fiji). Many dealers sell this as Genuine Mahogany because it looks like the real deal... It's actually darn close, but has more ribbon than the real deal. It can take the traditional schedule if it doesn't have much ribbon. Second: Why color the Mahogany at all? It's a fair question... In twelve months, Mahogany turns a rich brown on it's own... The schedule you posted is from the "I want my project to look like 100-years old right now" school of finishing -- which is out of fashion -- unless your trying to match something you already have... Third: What type of project is it? Pore filling looks best on things like formal dining tables with a high-gloss lacquer finish... Many other styles of furniture leave the piece open-pored -- think G&G. Pore filled Mahogany is a traditional finish that's a bit out of place today -- unless you've got a bunch of antiques or want a 'formal' look in your living/dining room... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Slack Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 "Second: Why color the Mahogany at all? It's a fair question... In twelve months, Mahogany turns a rich brown on it's own... The schedule you posted is from the "I want my project to look like 100-years old right now" school of finishing -- which is out of fashion -- unless your trying to match something you already have..." Personally I subscribe to this approach. If you invested in beautiful wood, let it shine. I also heard that to pop the grain is best not to use waterbase finishes but oil base. My preference is ... Waterlox. Simple and beautiful. Let time do the work. Unless .. these are kitchen cabinets, then I would protect the waterlox with a protective coat of sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpf1182 Posted June 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I am 90% sure I have Honduran mahogany. I use this lumber yard often and they have never tried to foist anything on me. I just have never made any mahogany projects. I am trying to avoid the "dull" brown mahogany look. The project is a side table for the family room.. I intended to use a satin finish. Of course, I am going to experiment with different finishs on spare pieces. What, then, is your suggestion for finishing mahogany....I am open to any suggestions. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 ==>I am 90% sure I have Honduran mahogany Cuban and Central American-sourced Honduran Mahogany lack ribbon, do not blotch and age to a redder tone. South-American-sourced 'Honduran' can have pronounced ribbon and slightly larger pores... It also ages to a slightly browner tone. Remember, if you color the wood now, the color you start with won't be the color in six or twelve months... ==>I intended to use a satin finish Then there is little point to grain fill... ==>The project is a side table for the family room Then you probably don't want a 'fine furniture' look... ==>What, then, is your suggestion for finishing mahogany.... Do you have access to spray gear? Do you want WB or a solvent-based finish? How much protection from abuse? 'Family room' implies some impact/abrasion resistance required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Ask your lumber yard, I am willing to bet that unless you paid dearly for it that it is Khaya from Africa . I like the natural appearance but clients and wives often overrule if favor of the traditional dark rich finish on mahogany. Usually only the top of a piece has the grain filled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 ==>but clients and wives often overrule Yea, no sh*t... Personally, I blame the BBC... Wives watch Downton Abby, see all those great antiques and figure that's what Mahogany 'should look like'. Same goes for 'mission brown'... The 'mission brown' sold today has nothing to do with how the piece looked when it came out of fuming booth in 1909... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpf1182 Posted June 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I can borrow a spray system from a cousin. I am always up for trying anything new. What is your suggestion? My kids are grown and gone so abuse is not an issue. In the past, for the nicer furniture I have made I have used Arm-R-Seal wiping varnish/oil. I know the protection is not great but it always gives a great looking finish. I have done some gloss and some that I have rubbed down to satin. I don't want a super gloss on the mahogany but also don't want a rough feel like open pore woods give (oak....yuck). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Just because your dealer tells you it's Honduran mahogany doesn't mean it's actually Honduran mahogany, and it doesn't mean they're lying to you either...they may just be misinformed. Their distributor may have lied or been misinformed themselves, or some other point up the chain, and no one down the chain had the knowledge or position to correct the misinformation. So you can end up with a species you were told was one thing in a perfectly honest way, yet end up with another. I've seen it happen at my dealership...a load of one species arrives labeled as one thing, and in fact it's another. Distributor is called, he faxes over his paperwork which also shows the incorrect species...it's akin to how rumors spread. All that blather aside, if you're working with anything other than Khaya (African mahogany), I wouldn't bother staining it. IMO all the "genuine" species that Trip mentioned are worth leaving alone. They're beautiful on their own. You only detract with stain...nothing is gained except artificiality. Like Marvin Gaye said, "ain't nothin' like the real thing, baby..." And you can still get a glass smooth surface with open-pored species and satin finish. I have no complaints with satin Arm-R-Seal on Hond. mah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatworks Today Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Here's a traditional finishing schedule for "mahogany" that's used in the boat industry. Might be the appearance you're looking for? If you want skip to the end of the video to see the end results. If there's something that catches your eye the video covers the process. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 ==>that's used in the boat industry I was visiting the maritime preservation museum in CT a couple of years. Happened to be the day of a large vintage ChrisCraft regatta. There were at least fifty of the things perfectly restored from the '20s and '30s... Never seen so much polished bright-work in one place at one time... Polished Mahogany as far as you could see... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan S Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 check out these photos, they are both picture frames made from mahogany, finished with clear danish oil and clear wax. Honduran Mahogany:http://www.dans-hobbies.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/frame.jpghttp://www.dans-hobbies.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/grainTwo.jpg Aftican Mahogany:http://www.dans-hobbies.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/JamesDean.jpg As you can see, the day they where finished the African Mahogany had a lot more read in it.while the Honduran was more brown. You can't really tell in the photos but The Honduran grain is much tighter. Two and a half years later, and they are both a lot darker. I would almost call the Honduran a mocha color now, while the African is a dark brown with a red tint. For something like a side table, I'd recommend a quality oil-based varnish like P&L 38. Just thin it with MS and wipe it on. http://www.prattandlambert.com/product-selector/homeowner/stains_clears/38_clear_varnish If you want to add a red/amber tone, try a little experimentation with BLO before to put on your top coat. I agree with others though, if you paid for the good stuff, don't die or stain it that would be sacrilege. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan S Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Since I had nothing better to do, I just took this. Its a 4-3/4" square lift-top box lid made from Honduran Mahogany. It's a bout 3 and a half years old now, and was finished the same as the picture frames. The photo shows how the tight the grain structure can be, I've never seen grain this tight from African Mahogany. Ignore the color, as it's washed out from the camera flash, and i suck at color correction. To my eye, the color of the lid is actually the color of the dark section in the lower left corner of the lid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 ==>Honduran Mahogany:http://www.dans-hobb...11/06/frame.jpghttp://www.dans-hobb...06/grainTwo.jpg Aftican Mahogany:http://www.dans-hobb...3/JamesDean.jpg Those are nice profiles. I far prefer frames with simple profiles that are well executed. Like the subtle contrast with the spline -- nice work. BTW: popped-over to your website. That bandsaw tool holder is a great idea... I'm like everyone else; always scrambling find my Allen keys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpf1182 Posted June 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Thanks everyone. I will experiment with different methods but am leaning to leaving the wood its' natural color and letting nature do the work of aging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan S Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Those are nice profiles. I far prefer frames with simple profiles that are well executed. Like the subtle contrast with the spline -- nice work. BTW: popped-over to your website. That bandsaw tool holder is a great idea... I'm like everyone else; always scrambling find my Allen keys... Thanks for the compliment TripleH. The holder has already saved me time twice, as I'm not constantly hunting for wrenches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weithman5 Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 my brother's old lyman (boat) was all mahogany interior. he simply dismantled it every winter, put it in his basement then would put a coat of varnish on it every week or two. this is still the most beautiful wood i have ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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