tcarswell Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I don't have either but I've been doing a ton of mortise and tenon and rocking chair building lately. My price range is under say 275 shipped. I don't technically have either plane at the moment I had a Stanley shoulder plane that worked ok but eventually got returned. I want a ln or lv or veritas unit mainly for tenon cheek and shoulder fitment. Also if you choose a unit if you could please note the size recommended it would be really helpful Thanks So Much Guys ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Shoulders should use a shoulder plane. I use a LN medium shoulder plane. For the cheeks you should use a wider plane, such as a rabbet block plane. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcarswell Posted December 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Ok. That's what I had initially thought as well and if that's necessary that's totally fine (an excuse for more tools right i remember a few people mentioning in the most recent which shoulder plane thread that they use their rabbeting block plane for tenons and shoulders and almost never use their shoulder planes so i thought maybe it would be best to start with the rabbeting block plane. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I prefer to use the tool designed for the job. There are ways around certain tools, but you may find that you need both. Another advantage of the shoulder plane is its narrow mouth, which reduces tearout. The shoulder plane is also easier to handle on a narrow shoulder than the rabbet block will be. You can get around it. Heck, some people don't use either and have fine joints. I remember Klausz saying in an interview with Schwarz that he doesn't need a shoulder plane because he simply cuts his joints correctly. So there's always that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcarswell Posted December 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Lol I'm definitely not one of those people who can get around processes because of my overall work quality. Using a Chisel currently and it just ain't cutting it. Do you feel the medium is the best size for overall work ? I had heard to get the big one from ln if you are getting your first . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 The rabbeting block plane will work but, Mel is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 If you're wanting to work on the cheeks of tenons then you want the rabbet block. It's a much more versatile plane than the shoulder plane, IMO. But it's nice to have both, as always. Also, if you're doing your tenons on the table saw, then you shouldn't have much shoulder work to do in the first place...as long as your setup is dialed in, the shoulders should be good right off the saw. Cheeks tend to have a little more variability from tenon to tenon and more often require tweaking for the perfect fit. I'd start with the rabbet block and add a shoulder plane later if you find you need one. If you're cutting tenons by hand then you'll probably need both right off the bat unless you're a superb sawyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcarswell Posted December 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 They are right of the table saw and yes the shoulders almost never need tweaking. Sound advice. Thank you very much guys. I'll start with the rabbeting block plane. Any suggestions or is the ln the way to go ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 They are right of the table saw and yes the shoulders almost never need tweaking. Sound advice. Thank you very much guys. I'll start with the rabbeting block plane. Any suggestions or is the ln the way to go ? Here comes another can of worms LN and LV both make very nice stuff.. Sorry, that's the highest road I could take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcarswell Posted December 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Here comes another can of worms LN and LV both make very nice stuff.. Sorry, that's the highest road I could take Oh boy I'll do a search I don't want to stir a source of contention. Thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Oh boy I'll do a search I don't want to stir a source of contention. Thanks guys No worries.. Just 2 very distinct camps.. In my case, I bought the LN and am very happy with it. I haven't used the LV so, can't really compare the 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Llama is wise! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I have both types of plane for both tasks. Shoulder planes are Stanley and the rabbeting block is what is known as Woodriver in North America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmaichel Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 I love the rabbet block plane and think it one of the more versatile hand tools. I am not a huge fan of shoulder planes, I had one for awhile and it was just a couple hundred dollar paper weight. I don't see them as a necessity in most shops these days, especially if your cutting tenons on a table saw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 Jumping on James' concept, shoulder planes are relatively simple up to a point. My $30.00 Stanley 92 vintage does all I need. Spend the bigger dollars in a rabbet. This also said, I like my full Stanley 10 1/2 rabbet for cheeks. It is wide enough to work cheeks in wide passes. It is not a block so no low angle, but I like it well enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 I have Veritas medium and large shoulder planes, as well as the LN rabbet block. I do most of my work on machines. That stated, of I were buying them again, based on how I like to work, I'd do it in this order: Lg Shoulder Med Shoulder Rabbet block - The large shoulder is often my first choice for things like tuning cheeks, hand fitting rabbets on things like trapped box panels, and the occasional post-machine shoulder adjustment or truing. It's easy to hold, has a nice mass to it, and is wide enough for a lot. When I tune cheeks, I crosshatch the face with a soft pencil, plane off just enough to remove the pencil, test, repeat on alternating faces 'till I'll joyful... - The medium shoulder fits in places when the large won't but it's smaller to hold, lighter, and can require more passes on a tenon face. Since I don't use my medium as much, it's usually sharper, so it gets grabbed for difficult woods. - The rabbet block is great to have, but is often my last choice to pick up, unless I really need the knickers. I store my rabbet block with the knickers extended. Keep in mind, for tenon cheek truing a regular block plane works great... Simply slightly undercut the area the plane can't touch due to the plane sides with a chisel. The undercut has an added benefit to reducing glue squeeze out when you assemble the joint, and can even make truing faster with other tools. I'll often machine tenon shoulders with my normal crosscut blade, then batch out the cheeks later after installing a dado set, or with a vertical jig. When I do this, I'll often cheat the shoulder cut a bit too deep, as it's better than too shallow or spending time getting it perfect. This naturally leaves the undercut. For me, the true general usefulness of a tool is often underscored by who makes the travel team. I've been attending schools and hands-on demos for close to 20 years, and what goes in my travel bags has really become constant, helping me understand what I really need to do good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcarswell Posted December 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Thank you all so much. I'm going to start with a rabbeting block plane first I'm still undecided as to which. I thought I saw a Stanley model once but I can't find it now. The only one I can actually find is the lie nielsen is the lv in another catalog or ? I see their plow plane but no rabbeting block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Thank you all so much. I'm going to start with a rabbeting block plane first I'm still undecided as to which. I thought I saw a Stanley model once but I can't find it now. The only one I can actually find is the lie nielsen is the lv in another catalog or ? I see their plow plane but no rabbeting block. The LN and Veritas versions are two different tools... The Veritas "rabbet block" is a skew block, open only on one side, equipped with a skewed iron, available in left and right versions. The LN is more like a wide, short shoulder plane, with a straight iron and both sides open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 LN also makes a skew rabbet block. Both companies also make a jack rabbet. It's a big one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Bailey Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 apologies if my noob q is interrupting here, I have never used either a rabbet block or a shoulder plane, but as I look around at the tools they look very similar to me. why not a router plane - works great to clean cheeks and centering your mortises on the stock, and has the added versatility of cleaning up dados and so forth. or am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 apologies if my noob q is interrupting here, I have never used either a rabbet block or a shoulder plane, but as I look around at the tools they look very similar to me. why not a router plane - works great to clean cheeks and centering your mortises on the stock, and has the added versatility of cleaning up dados and so forth. or am I missing something? Router planes are great for tenon cheeks, truing dados, hinge mortising... You're not missing anything at all, it's just one of the many ways to accomplish the end result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 The router plane is limited by how much the cutter extends passed the body. Unless you have a very shallow tenon, you won't be able to reach the shoulder. There are other issues, but that's the big one if I understand your question correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Bailey Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 ok that makes sense, thanks! The router plane is limited by how much the cutter extends passed the body. Unless you have a very shallow tenon, you won't be able to reach the shoulder. There are other issues, but that's the big one if I understand your question correctly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcarswell Posted December 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 That's a great point I'm definitely getting a nice router plane as well. Marc's book has an excellent write up on router planes . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 The router plane is limited by how much the cutter extends passed the body. Unless you have a very shallow tenon, you won't be able to reach the shoulder. There are other issues, but that's the big one if I understand your question correctly. I can't agree with that at all.. I have two router planes, and the larger will go a little more than an inch deep. I don't see many tenons with shoulders deeper than an inch. When using a router to adjust a long tenon, where the tool might tip, you support the other side of the tool with either a second copy of the part, an offcut from the same stock, or attach an offset base to the bottom of the plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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