Niku Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 I recently replaced the flooring in my kitchen. I replaced the 5/8" particle board that had absorbed too much moisture and become too spongy. I replaced it with 5/8" plywood. Unfortunately, the plywood floooring is still too flexible, even though I placed many cross pieces for additional support (there were no cross pieces with the particle board). Anyway, I am now facing the prospect of placing additional cross pieces from the crawl space. It seems to me that 5/8" plywood is too thin, and I only purchsed it because the surrounding flooring is also of that thickness. I would like to use 3/4" in the future, but there would then be the problem of matching its thickness to surrounding flooring. In other words, the insert panel would be 3/4" except for its edges, which would be 5/8". Is there a machine/device/method of planing/grinding a bevel into the edge of a sheet of plywood so that it would have a 5/8" beveled edge in order to be the same thickness as the surrounding flooring? If you don't like my use of the word,"bevel," try "slope". The plywood panel would slope off from 3/4" in its center to 5/8" on its perimeter. This slope band would, I think, be be no wider than maybe 4". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdabroxx Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 What flooring materials will be on either side of the sloping portion of the floor? 3/4 would be the minimum thickness I would use for flooring, I almost always specify 1.1/8" ply though. What is your joist spacing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 I don't know of any way to "bevel" like what you're looking to do. I'm surprised that the current subfloor isn't 3/4 but, probably shouldn't be.. If taking up all the subflooring and replacing with 3/4 (minimum) isn't an option then additional support under would be the way to go. You could try to do it with transition pieces but, those are trip hazards and toe biters every time. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 Niku, Would it be a ball buster to take up the 5/8 and put down 3/4" or 1". Installing braces from the crawl space is not something I would look forward to and you'll kick yourself in the butt every time you trip over a transition like that and spill your beer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Belt sander + 36 grit. And patience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splinterdawg Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Hmm, maybe you could try using Baltic Birch plywood instead. It is much stiffer that the typical plywood. It comes in 12 mm and 18 mm thickness. Typical plywood at 5/8 inch is 15.875 mm, and 3/4 inch is 19.05 mm. If you used 18 mm Baltic Birch, it would be about 2 mm greater in thickness than the typical 5/8 inch plywood. But not sure if that would be too much for your situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Am I misunderstanding? "Cross pieces." You mean floor joists? Are you laying your floor right on top of joists? If you have a proper 3/4" subfloor, you shouldn't have too much spongy...and if you do, you either have joists that don't meet code either in dimension or spacing, or you have a problem like rot or termites. Plywood subfloors on top of joists won't feel like concrete...there's gonna be a tiny bit of "give" to the floor, which makes them more comfortable to walk on...but if you can feel the floor actually sag beneath you, you have bigger issues to address. If you've been laying flooring directly on top of joists, you have even bigger issues...and not just with the house. Edit: after rereading, I guess you ARE talking about the subfloor and not flooring. If you have that much sag, I'm assuming your joists aren't spaced correctly. What centers are the joists on? We have 3/4" plywood subfloor and 3/4" hardwood flooring. There's nearly zero give to the floor. To address the uneven floor...you either have to rip up all the floor and lay down a consistent thickness subfloor, or raise the lower area by adding additional subfloor, or deal with an inconsistent height with a threshold somewhere. You can't just "bevel" a piece to introduce a transition area...that would look ridiculous. Doing things the right way can suck sometimes, but it's the only way to do things... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 It is also possible the joists span too much distance. I am hung up on how the chip board was sufficient but the ply is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdabroxx Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Or you could add blocking between your existing joists at 12"o.c. that would stiffen it up even with the 5/8" most likely. Pictures of the situation would help too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niku Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Niku, Would it be a ball buster to take up the 5/8 and put down 3/4" or 1". Installing braces from the crawl space is not something I would look forward to and you'll kick yourself in the butt every time you trip over a transition like that and spill your beer! That would not be a reasonable solution for reasons of cost and…well, the cost factor is enough. I'm talking about fixing sections of the flooring that are too spongy. Replacing the entire floor is just not an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niku Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Or you could add blocking between your existing joists at 12"o.c. that would stiffen it up even with the 5/8" most likely. Pictures of the situation would help too. The funny thing is, there was no blocking, or almost none, before. Anyway, I did add blocking, but not enough. I did think of 12" spacing (I don't know what 'o.c." is), but I thought that that would be overkill. However, I'll certainly put the blocks closer together on future floor replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niku Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 I don't know of any way to "bevel" like what you're looking to do. I'm surprised that the current subfloor isn't 3/4 but, probably shouldn't be.. —- I don't quite understand this. Are you saying it should be 3/4," or not? —————- If taking up all the subflooring and replacing with 3/4 (minimum) isn't an option then additional support under would be the way to go. — I keep seeing the term "subflooring". It's plywood on the supporting beams. The plywood is topped by linoleum. To me, the term for the plywood would be "flooring, not "subflooring". That might be nitpicking, but, then again, maybe I'm missing something important. ———— You could try to do it with transition pieces but, those are trip hazards and toe biters every time. — You might be right, but I don't see how the change of an eighth of an inch over four inches could be a problem. On the other hand, I can remember almost tripping over insignificant changes in surface level. Sudden changes, though. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdabroxx Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 The funny thing is, there was no blocking, or almost none, before. Anyway, I did add blocking, but not enough. I did think of 12" spacing (I don't know what 'o.c." is), but I thought that that would be overkill. However, I'll certainly put the blocks closer together on future floor replacement. o.c. = on center Blocking is not always a requirement, so it is not surprising that it isn't present. Subfloor, the surface you attach your flooring to. Meaning your plywood is a subfloor to your linoleum. I think you would be better off making a change in height with a threshold rather than a slope. Us humans are pretty stupid when it comes to walking on uneven surfaces that we assume to be flat. If you are only trying to replace sections of subfloor in the middle of your linoleum I think you're in for a bad time. I would at minimum replace all the subflooring under the linoleum to a transition point in floor materials, meaning where carpet meets linoleum or similar. That way you could put a wood threshold down to transition from the two thicknesses. I have a half inch or so step up from the laminate flooring in the hallway to the tile in the bathroom but it isn't an issue for example as the transition happens at a doorway, a normal place for a floor ht. transition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niku Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 What flooring materials will be on either side of the sloping portion of the floor? 3/4 would be the minimum thickness I would use for flooring, I almost always specify 1.1/8" ply though. What is your joist spacing? What flooring materials will be on either side of the sloping portion of the floor? —- Plywood —————- 3/4 would be the minimum thickness I would use for flooring, I almost always specify 1.1/8" ply though. —- I do, too—now. However, that's the floor I have. Also, when I talked to contractors before doing the job, I got the impression that 5/8" was the standard thickness for plywood flooring. Maybe it is, for mobile homes, or mobile homes of a certain age. What is your joist spacing? — I'm embarrassed to say that I don't know. It seems to me that they were 24" apart, but I seemed to have forgotten what I never thought I would, and my two stud detectors are as worthless as they ever were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niku Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 o.c. = on center Blocking is not always a requirement, so it is not surprising that it isn't present. Subfloor, the surface you attach your flooring to. Meaning your plywood is a subfloor to your linoleum. — Okay, thanks for the information. ——— I think you would be better off making a change in height with a threshold rather than a slope. Us humans are pretty stupid when it comes to walking on uneven surfaces that we assume to be flat. If you are only trying to replace sections of subfloor in the middle of your linoleum I think you're in for a bad time. I would at minimum replace all the subflooring under the linoleum to a transition point in floor materials, meaning where carpet meets linoleum or similar. That way you could put a wood threshold down to transition from the two thicknesses. I have a half inch or so step up from the laminate flooring in the hallway to the tile in the bathroom but it isn't an issue for example as the transition happens at a doorway, a normal place for a floor ht. transition. —- No, if I wanted to do that, I would need a much more graduated slope. My job is easier, relatively. My kitchen floor is covered with linoleum. The rest of the house, with the exception of one bathroom, is covered with carpeting. I like your threshold idea. I had thought about it, but hearing it from someone more experienced makes a difference. As a matter of fact, I had thought of doing the repair by simply covering the existing particle board with a layer of plywoed. That would have done the job—I think—but I decided not to do that becaue of the transition problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niku Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Belt sander + 36 grit. And patience. And skill with the sander, which I don't have, and I base this reply upon experience, experience that didn't turn out too well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdabroxx Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Something along the lines of this should work. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Zamma-Oak-Gunstock-3-8-in-Height-x-1-3-4-in-Wide-x-80-in-Length-Wood-Multi-purpose-Reducer-3-8-in-01438307802505/203277268?cm_mmc=SEM|THD|D23&mid=VPJCLXek|dc_mtid_8903pdd25182_pcrid_64456068208_pkw_PLA_pmt_PLA_product_203277268&gclid=Cj0KEQjw1pWrBRDuv-rhstiX6KwBEiQA5V9ZoXo6PBeJEa57ar0r4Ny04Gs3OBkcetOpn2ChcBd9vOAaArOF8P8HAQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niku Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Am I misunderstanding? "Cross pieces." You mean floor joists? Are you laying your floor right on top of joists? If you have a proper 3/4" subfloor, you shouldn't have too much spongy...and if you do, you either have joists that don't meet code either in dimension or spacing, or you have a problem like rot or termites. Plywood subfloors on top of joists won't feel like concrete...there's gonna be a tiny bit of "give" to the floor, which makes them more comfortable to walk on...but if you can feel the floor actually sag beneath you, you have bigger issues to address. If you've been laying flooring directly on top of joists, you have even bigger issues...and not just with the house. Edit: after rereading, I guess you ARE talking about the subfloor and not flooring. If you have that much sag, I'm assuming your joists aren't spaced correctly. What centers are the joists on? We have 3/4" plywood subfloor and 3/4" hardwood flooring. There's nearly zero give to the floor. To address the uneven floor...you either have to rip up all the floor and lay down a consistent thickness subfloor, or raise the lower area by adding additional subfloor, or deal with an inconsistent height with a threshold somewhere. You can't just "bevel" a piece to introduce a transition area...that would look ridiculous. Doing things the right way can suck sometimes, but it's the only way to do things... Something along the lines of this should work. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Zamma-Oak-Gunstock-3-8-in-Height-x-1-3-4-in-Wide-x-80-in-Length-Wood-Multi-purpose-Reducer-3-8-in-01438307802505/203277268?cm_mmc=SEM|THD|D23&mid=VPJCLXek|dc_mtid_8903pdd25182_pcrid_64456068208_pkw_PLA_pmt_PLA_product_203277268&gclid=Cj0KEQjw1pWrBRDuv-rhstiX6KwBEiQA5V9ZoXo6PBeJEa57ar0r4Ny04Gs3OBkcetOpn2ChcBd9vOAaArOF8P8HAQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niku Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 I don't know of any way to "bevel" like what you're looking to do. I'm surprised that the current subfloor isn't 3/4 but, probably shouldn't be.. If taking up all the subflooring and replacing with 3/4 (minimum) isn't an option then additional support under would be the way to go. You could try to do it with transition pieces but, those are trip hazards and toe biters every time. Good luck! ------- I don't think an eighth of an inch over four inches would even be noticeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niku Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Belt sander + 36 grit. And patience. I thought I had answered this, but my iMac seems to be going out, and I'm not yet familiar with my iPad. Anyway, I said that it takes skill to use a sander, skill that I don't have, particularly on such a large-scale job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niku Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niku Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 I don't like "give". Yes, the sub-flooring is directly on top if the beams/joists, just as is the rest of the house.I don't think an eighth of an inch over four inches would even be noticeable.On the other hand, that tiny 1/8" difference makes a surprising difference in the firmness of the flooring. It's surprising to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niku Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 It is also possible the joists span too much distance. I am hung up on how the chip board was sufficient but the ply is not. ---- So am I, but that's the way it is. I have no explanation. I hate particle board, but maybe it's stiffer, or maybe I got inferior plywood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 OK, if I understand correctly, you want a fast and cheap way to replace some sheets of 5/8" OSB subfloor with 3/4" plywood, without replacing the whole floor. I'd use a router to cut channels (grooves, dados) in the plywood to fit the floor joists into. That way the flat surface of the plywood matches the flat surface of the adjoining OSB. Keep in mind that your plywood isn't exactly 3/4" thick, and your OSB isn't exactly 5/8". So, cut your channels a little deeper each pass and test fit. Once you have your router set to the correct depth by test fitting, you can (probably) use that setting everywhere. The plywood will probably dull your router bits quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niku Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 OK, if I understand correctly, you want a fast and cheap way to replace some sheets of 5/8" OSB subfloor with 3/4" plywood, without replacing the whole floor. I'd use a router to cut channels (grooves, dados) in the plywood to fit the floor joists into. That way the flat surface of the plywood matches the flat surface of the adjoining OSB. Keep in mind that your plywood isn't exactly 3/4" thick, and your OSB isn't exactly 5/8". So, cut your channels a little deeper each pass and test fit. Once you have your router set to the correct depth by test fitting, you can (probably) use that setting everywhere. The plywood will probably dull your router bits quickly.---- Now, I'd call that an ingenious idea, certainly "out of the box," and I'm not being sarcastic. Anyway, I'm going to quit here for awhile. i've learned a lot, but it's too much trouble to continue using my iPad, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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