Dean Hummel Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 After the introduction of the Sawstop Technology on table saws the first question that came to mind was whether or not this safety mechanism could be adapted to use in a jointer. IMO a jointer is more dangerous than a table saw. With a TS if you are injured there is a fairly good chance your digits can be reattached, but with a jointer you are hamburger. After having an uncle lose some fingers in a jointer accident I would certainly breathe easier if a Sawstop type technology was available for that tool. Thoughts? Dean Hummel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick2cd Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 if you look on the FAQ section of sawstops website, you'll find that they are currently in development of an entire line of tools that will employ the safety technology we see in their table saws. i'd say it's a safe bet that they have a jointer in the works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombarde16 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Would that make it a Joint Stop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMarcel Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Would that make it a Joint Stop? ha ha, won't be available in the Netherlands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torch02 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 That would have been nice about 7 weeks ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMarcel Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 That would have been nice about 7 weeks ago Ouch! I saw some pics on your twitpic stream of a bandaged finger with a tip missing. Was that a jointer accident? Maybe I missed your post about it; hope all is well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jab73180 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 what are they going to do about a chop saw? chop stop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBaiga Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 that's pretty cool. of course with their sensor technology, it requires contact with a metal blade, which make me wonder when someone will devise a proximity-based system which would also work on non-spinning blade tools like sanders. not the same type of damage, but abrasion injuries hurt and can take a lot of recovery time. i imagine it's not a limitation in technology and know-how but rather a means to cost-effectively bringing it to market. the more research i do, the more i'm sold on the sawstop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMarcel Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 that's pretty cool. of course with their sensor technology, it requires contact with a metal blade, which make me wonder when someone will devise a proximity-based system which would also work on non-spinning blade tools like sanders. not the same type of damage, but abrasion injuries hurt and can take a lot of recovery time. i imagine it's not a limitation in technology and know-how but rather a means to cost-effectively bringing it to market. the more research i do, the more i'm sold on the sawstop. Okay, so seriously this is not my story told in third-person I worked with a guy who did a stint in woodworking. Along the way, he was using a belt sander to flatten a top. Admiring the flat top, he lowered the sander to his side as it spun down. It grabbed his shorts, which jerked it down causing him to press the button only making it worse. A certain guy by the name of "Johnson" was pulled into the belt. Mr Johnson took 6 weeks to heal and looks a little different (I am told). So, even a lowly sander can be dangerous if you aren't paying attention. I like the proximity sensor although the problem would be as you run a board over the blade on a jointer unless it was set to detect really close proximity. I'd preorder a JointerStop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jab73180 Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 well shiver me timbers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBaiga Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 SandStop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmorretta Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 With Sawstop moving into more products; I wonder what the other vendors are doing. Does anyone have insight into the other companies safty activities? Are they thinking about licensing the brake technology? Are they working on alternative solutions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick2cd Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 With Sawstop moving into more products; I wonder what the other vendors are doing. Does anyone have insight into the other companies safty activities? Are they thinking about licensing the brake technology? Are they working on alternative solutions? sawstop started out trying to sell their brake technology to all the major companies, but they all said, "no thanks. safety doesn't sell." so sawstop said, "fine, we'll build from the ground up." i think we all know how it turned out from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nateswoodworks Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Okay, so seriously this is not my story told in third-person I worked with a guy who did a stint in woodworking. Along the way, he was using a belt sander to flatten a top. Admiring the flat top, he lowered the sander to his side as it spun down. It grabbed his shorts, which jerked it down causing him to press the button only making it worse. A certain guy by the name of "Johnson" was pulled into the belt. Mr Johnson took 6 weeks to heal and looks a little different (I am told). So, even a lowly sander can be dangerous if you aren't paying attention. I like the proximity sensor although the problem would be as you run a board over the blade on a jointer unless it was set to detect really close proximity. I'd preorder a JointerStop. OOWWIIEE! I realy didn't have any phobias before reading this but I do now. How would you explain that to your friends and co-workers? Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I don't think it's as simple as "safety doesn't sell". I've read that the Sawstop brake needs to be in a really solid saw with heavy duty construction and tight tolerances to absorb the energy of a brake event. So, the Sawstop $3000 cabinet saw with all-steel construction and cast iron tables is equivalent to other $3000 cabinet saw with all-steel construction and cast iron tables, but if you want to put the brake on a contractor saw you have to re-design the saw to use all steel construction and cast iron tables. And forget putting it on a plastic and aluminum job-site saw. It may not be possible to retrofit the brake to an existing high-end saw easily - it might need to be designed in from the beginning. The existing companies claim that the Sawstop "license" was very expensive and Sawstop was unwilling to negotiate on the price. So, they could pay through the nose for the technology, and then only put it on their top of the line saws. So, if I'm a saw manufacturer, I could design a new high end saw that competes with my existing high end saw and see if it sells. If it doesn't, then I'm out a ton of money, and if it does, I give a big chunk of the profits to Sawstop. And probably lose sales on my existing high end saw. If the saw needs to be redesigned (I don't know if it does), then it makes sense for Sawstop to make the new competing saw, rather than an existing manufacturer. This is all my speculation, based on what I've read. The only competing technology I've seen was a amateurish YouTube video of an overarm blade guard that would kill power to the saw if it was touched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bywc Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Is this the alternative your talking about? http://www.whirlwindtool.com/ Senses when fingers are in danger and STOPS the saw blade in 1/8 OF A SECOND! Developed by veteran woodworker David Butler, the patent-pending Whirlwind™ table saw emergency blade brake is a simple device which can be easily and inexpensively incorporated into production or retrofitted to millions of existing saws. The advanced bench top prototype showcased on this site differs from all previous table saw blade guards, with a built-in "electronic fence." If the operator approaches or touches the clear blade guard fence, the proximity detector will immediately shut down the saw motor and stop the blade, without damage, in one-eighth of a second — long before the operator can contact the spinning blade. The saw can be restarted almost immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Yes, it looks like the same product. It's a lot more professional looking than I remember! I'm glad that it is moving forwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBaiga Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 unfortunately, other saw manufacturers won't migrate to the new technology until it's cost effective to do so. so either feature creep pushes cost over the edge, or liability/legal costs do it, or Saw Stop grabs enough market share. otherwise if Saw Stop doesn't grow fast enough, others can wait out the patent lifetimes or develop their own proprietary technology. if i'm Powermatic, Delta, Jet, etc. on the cabinet saw side or Bosch, DeWalt, Makita, etc. on the contractor saw side why would they change what they are doing if sales are still strong? market rules will will work. we all have a role to play with each and every purchasing decision. and frankly since the contractor side is where the volume and dollars are, this is where the emphasis needs to be. Saw Stop could sell the saws cheaper and charge more for the brakes. They could also adopt a brake replacement/repair service option. Hustle all the DIY shows, and finally make the general public aware. If I were to hire or only recommend a contractor with equipment with these safety features to work on my property, that would go a long way. But if you try and go purely the legal/liability route, then it seems like it's being legislated down people's throat and that's not good either. people have to want this technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBaiga Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Is this the alternative your talking about? http://www.whirlwindtool.com/ Senses when fingers are in danger and STOPS the saw blade in 1/8 OF A SECOND! Developed by veteran woodworker David Butler, the patent-pending Whirlwind™ table saw emergency blade brake is a simple device which can be easily and inexpensively incorporated into production or retrofitted to millions of existing saws. The advanced bench top prototype showcased on this site differs from all previous table saw blade guards, with a built-in "electronic fence." If the operator approaches or touches the clear blade guard fence, the proximity detector will immediately shut down the saw motor and stop the blade, without damage, in one-eighth of a second — long before the operator can contact the spinning blade. The saw can be restarted almost immediately. http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=4&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=Butler&s2=saw&OS=Butler+AND+saw&RS=Butler+AND+saw add here's the link to the patent application that their site claims Due to patent disclosure issues we cannot go into further details of “how it works.” basically an electrical capacitance detector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlehikoinen Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Would that make it a Joint Stop? Sounds like a bad case of arthritis! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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