Maple Cabinet Staining Issue

[Shonkanation]

Hi everyone,

I am new to the forum but just started a staining project after purchasing some cabinets.  I went with Maple cabinets and chose a dark miniwax oil stain -Jacobean to stain the cabinets since the color is similar to the rest of the cabinets in our kitchen.  I have applied the stain over the maple wood that came sanded from the cabinet maker and the stain looks awful and is not uniform.  I am looking for some help on what to do in order to fix it.  I would like to avoid sanding everything down but looking for advice.  Here is a picture attached.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Woodenskye]

It looks blotchy to me, and personally I don't think light woods take dark stain good at all.  I really think you are going to have to sand the finish you applied off.  After sanding it off you may need to seal with shellac prior to staining it again. 

[wdwerker]

3 mistakes. Trusting the mfg to sand properly, trying to stain maple  dark, using Minwax stain. If you are trying to finish light wood very dark & uniform it must be sanded without skipping any grits to around 150-180 grit consistently. Then it should be sprayed with a modern stain/dye product that's not for sale in home centers. This takes good spray equipment and a fair amount of skill. 

You might be able to use a gel wiping stain to cover up your current mess. I strongly suggest that you practice whatever product & technique you decide on either on scraps treated the same way you did the cabinet or the back of the doors before you touch the exposed surfaces.

[Llama]

6 minutes ago, wdwerker said:

Trusting the mfg to sand properly

This more than anything! They're not finishing it... sanding through grits is part of the finishing process. Not wanting to sand it back now is a mistake.

Then only thing you can do at this point without sanding is to paint it. 

[Shonkanation]

Alright, well sounds like it needs to get sanded down.

I am new to finishing and am curious to know what recommendations you have for sanding it down then how you go about sanding through all of the grits.

Thank you for all of the feedback so far. 

[AceHoleInOne]

If this were me. I would purchase a good chemical stripper containing MC, get a bag of coarse/medium steel wool and get that stain off. Start the process over. 

Use proper safety gear for using the stripper, rubber gloves-proper ventilation-eye protection. 

-Ace-

[Llama]

Did you only sand one? How many do you have to do?

[Shonkanation]

2 minutes ago, Llama said:

Did you only sand one? How many do you have to do?

There are two cabinets this needs to be done for.

[Eric.]

Painted white cabinets are pretty trendy these days.

Maple is a blotchy species, and when it meets oil based stain = disaster.

You'll need to use a sanding sealer or shellac for your base coat, then a gel stain, then top coat.  There are other ways to achieve a consistent color on blotchy species but this seems the easiest and most fool-proof way to do it.

[Shonkanation]

17 minutes ago, Eric. said:

Painted white cabinets are pretty trendy these days.

Maple is a blotchy species, and when it meets oil based stain = disaster.

You'll need to use a sanding sealer or shellac for your base coat, then a gel stain, then top coat.  There are other ways to achieve a consistent color on blotchy species but this seems the easiest and most fool-proof way to do it.

White does not really work in the space since everything else is darker cabinets.

How do you recommend sanding down the current stain and prepping prior to using the sealer?

[Eric.]

I'd invest in a decent random orbit sander and some good sandpaper.  You can do the flat surfaces with the sander but all the edges and corners will have to be done by hand.  Start with 80 grit and work your way back up to 180 or 220.  It will be "fun" getting all those nooks and crannies.

I was joking about the white cabinets since you obviously want dark ones.  But you're not gonna enjoy the sanding process, I can assure you.

[Shonkanation]

1 minute ago, Eric. said:

I'd invest in a decent random orbit sander and some good sandpaper.  You can do the flat surfaces with the sander but all the edges and corners will have to be done by hand.  Start with 80 grit and work your way back up to 180 or 220.  It will be "fun" getting all those nooks and crannies.

I was joking about the white cabinets since you obviously want dark ones.  But you're not gonna enjoy the sanding process, I can assure you.

Hence why I did not want to sand.  How do you know when you are done with a certain level of grit and need to move up?

[AceHoleInOne]

47 minutes ago, Shonkanation said:

Hence why I did not want to sand.  How do you know when you are done with a certain level of grit and need to move up?

I'm telling ya, stripping is the quickest and easiest way to remove the stain.  So how do you propose to sand the door profiles clean of stain and not ruin the profile?  I'm done now 

 

-Ace-

[Shonkanation]

10 minutes ago, AceHoleInOne said:

I'm telling ya, stripping is the quickest and easiest way to remove the stain.  So how do you propose to sand the door profiles clean of stain and not ruin the profile?  I'm done now 

 

-Ace-

That is a good point.  When you say MC in the stripper what are you referring to?

[AceHoleInOne]

 

25 minutes ago, Shonkanation said:

That is a good point.  When you say MC in the stripper what are you referring to?

 

 

Methylene Chloride - Goof Off brand  is a good one sold at the box stores .

 

-Ace-

[collinb]

I put a dark cherry stain on some maple legs last year. The first two were splotchy, but I caught it right away and was able to even it out.  The second two worked out fine.

From what I've seen (TOH & those woodworking shows on PBS) maple needs a pre-treatment to take stain properly. The method probably depends upon the stain of choice. It's either spritz it with water or apply a pre-stain treatment. Some sort of pre-treatment seems necessary for maple.

Maple *can* look nice with a dark stain. http://ornamentalmills.com/turningaround/RouterCrafter.htm (last pic)

I picked up a copy of the Wood Bible -- pics of many species with a selection stains applied. A useful starting-point reference, but ymmv b/c every piece of wood is different.

[Shonkanation]

44 minutes ago, collinb said:

I put a dark cherry stain on some maple legs last year. The first two were splotchy, but I caught it right away and was able to even it out.  The second two worked out fine.

From what I've seen (TOH & those woodworking shows on PBS) maple needs a pre-treatment to take stain properly. The method probably depends upon the stain of choice. It's either spritz it with water or apply a pre-stain treatment. Some sort of pre-treatment seems necessary for maple.

Maple *can* look nice with a dark stain. http://ornamentalmills.com/turningaround/RouterCrafter.htm (last pic)

I picked up a copy of the Wood Bible -- pics of many species with a selection stains applied. A useful starting-point reference, but ymmv b/c every piece of wood is different.

Thanks for the feedback.  Did you apply the stain while the pretreatment was still wet?

[Eric.]

 

[Shonkanation]

1 hour ago, Eric. said:

 

Great video.  Thanks for sharing.  Wish I would have read this before starting.

[rodger.]

I've tried, like many, to stain maple. I no longer try to do so - it's so blotchy and unpredictable to apply stain to.

If I had to colour maple, I would go with a dye instead (Lee Valley sells some) for better penetration. If you really want dark, an open grained species would be much friendlier to colour (like ash).

Can you rebuy the cabinets, and use the current one in your shop or garage? I would rather buy another inexpensive cabinet for the "do over" , then spend hours getting that one stripped or sanded.

[Isaac]

If it were me, I'd try a gel stain over that. See how it looks on a small area, if it works, that is easier than starting over. If not, start stripping, and then use the gel stain. 

[Shonkanation]

15 hours ago, rodger. said:

I've tried, like many, to stain maple. I no longer try to do so - it's so blotchy and unpredictable to apply stain to.

If I had to colour maple, I would go with a dye instead (Lee Valley sells some) for better penetration. If you really want dark, an open grained species would be much friendlier to colour (like ash).

Can you rebuy the cabinets, and use the current one in your shop or garage? I would rather buy another inexpensive cabinet for the "do over" , then spend hours getting that one stripped or sanded.

The cabinets were custom built.  Not an option to reuse.

 

15 hours ago, Isaac said:

If it were me, I'd try a gel stain over that. See how it looks on a small area, if it works, that is easier than starting over. If not, start stripping, and then use the gel stain. 

I thought about that.  I may go buy some and try over a small area.  There are so many different variations right now that I get concerned its going to overlay differently on each section depending on how dark it is.  Think it might be easier to strip and start over with the shellac and gel stain.

[wdwerker]

You might only need one coat on the dark areas and several where it's much lighter. Practice on the back of the doors.

[Shonkanation]

1 hour ago, wdwerker said:

You might only need one coat on the dark areas and several where it's much lighter. Practice on the back of the doors.

Any concern that there is no base coat when apply gel stain over oil based stain?

[rodger.]

4 hours ago, Shonkanation said:

The cabinets were custom built.  Not an option to reuse.

Bummer.